K Frame Masterpiece Revolvers Won't Fit in the Box??

[glowe]

I have picked up a couple sets of non-relieved K frame target stocks for a K22 and K38 and just happened to set them down in gold boxes, but they will not fit with the large target stocks on. This makes me wonder how or if they were shipped with target stocks?? I have not seen any over-sized early post-war gold boxes and wonder if you were ordering these revolvers with target stocks, how were they shipped?? Would they ship the gun with standard Magna stocks and the target stocks seperate? Is that the reason why I have never found a serial numbered set of target stocks, maybe because they were never fitted to the gun in the factory?? Comments and/or the answers are welcome.

 

[JP@AK]

I've noticed the same thing.
Keep in mind, the target stocks were not introduced until the early 1950s and the gold boxes were introduced in the mid- to late-1940s. I suspect the vast majority of K-target guns into the early '50s were shipped with Magna stocks, and fit the boxes just fine. I don't know what S&W did for shipments of any early 1950s K-38, K-22 or K-32 revolvers that were ordered with target stocks (once they were offered), but it might have been as you say - the target stocks were, perhaps, loaded into the box separately. Perhaps someone here knows for sure.

As for numbers on target stocks, with a very few exceptions (for example, some early Combat Magnum revolvers) the company did not number them with the serial number of the frame. The reason it was done on the service stocks is that extra fitting had to be done to match them exactly to a particular frame. This was not necessary on the target stocks, so there was no need to put numbers on them.

 

[Engine49guy]

I never focused on the boxes so am not much help but IIRC there was also an issue with the depth of the box and seem to recall the number of tabs on the metal side corners going from 4 to 5 at some point.

 

[glowe]

I have notes that state the targets stocks were introduced in late 1949, so in the early 50s, you would have had both gold boxes and target stocks. Also, I just checked, the target stocks are 1/4" higher than the gold box, so that leave out the option of putting them in the same box as the gun.

Does anyone have a factory letter stating their K frame Masterpiece was shipped with target stocks??

 

[Walter Rego]

glowe, I have a K-38 Masterpiece, serial # in the K232800 range, shipped 5/31/55 to Evaluators in Quantico VA. Mr Jinks' letter states "The records indicate that this handgun was shipped with a 6 inch barrel, target hammer, blue finish and checkered walnut target grips" (sic) which is how it remains today. The problem with a period K-38 gold box is that it is not only not high enough, but the extra length of the Target Stocks below the butt of the gun precludes placing the gun in the box in the traditional partially diagonal position. The box would have to be wider as well as taller.

 

[JP@AK]

I guess after dinner (my wife just stuck her head in the door and said my supper is on the table) I will dig into my gun room and compare the dimensions of an early blue box with a late gold box. Let's see if the blue boxes are any larger.
It seems to me that a K-38 shipped in May, 1955, might well have come in a blue box.
I'll get back here when I have something to report.

 

[glowe]

. . . The problem with a period K-38 gold box is that it is not only not high enough, but the extra length of the Target Stocks below the butt of the gun precludes placing the gun in the box in the traditional partially diagonal position. The box would have to be wider as well as taller.

That was what I was trying to show in my above picture. So the question remains, how did they ship your Masterpiece with target stocks?

 

[rct269]

For openers, I don't have the first clue as to the real answer to Gary's question.

But----given that the simplest answer is often the best answer, they shipped the guns with the grips removed (as Jack said). On the one hand, that seems unlikely; because "some assembly is required". On the other hand, the required assembly does not require an advanced degree in Mechanical Engineering-----and the required tool is in the box.

If I was the go-to guy for resolution of such crises, that would have been my answer.

Ralph Tremaine

And if/when my boss scowled at me, I'd have a little set of instructions printed up to go in the box. After the next chewing out, I'm fairly certain my boss would take me out, and buy me a drink----maybe two drinks.

And if my response was to wait until we got some bigger boxes made up, I'd expect to be fired----and deservedly so!

 

[wheelgun610]

I don't have the answer to the cardboard mystery, but will offer that the only serial numbered K frame target stocks I've ever seen or heard of were shipped on Combat Magnums (pre-19's) in the lower K 250000 range.

Mark

 

[824tsv]

I'll bet Mr Jinks has the answer to that question.

 

[H Richard]

I just asked Roy, and he answered:

They, used a bigger box when the gun was originally fit with target grips. Roy
__________________
Roy G. Jinks
Historian, Smith & Wesson

 

[glowe]

So there were gold boxes out there that were longer, wider, and deeper than standard?? A new collectible to seek out? I have certainly never seen an oversized gold Masterpiece box. Anyone have an example they can share a few photos showing the target stocked Masterpiece in the box?

 

[Walter Rego]

I took this quick & dirty pic of a couple of K-38 boxes. The dark blue box is very early, has the solid border on the top and silver S & W letters on the end opposite the label. It is noticeably smaller in height and width than a gold box from a year or two earlier, and my K-38 with Target Stocks won't fit in the gold box. I too would be curious if anyone has a gold box larger than the dimensions of the one pictured, for either a K-22 or K-38

 

[JP@AK]

I just checked my blue and gold K-38 boxes from the early- to mid-1950s. The one early blue box for which I am certain of the ship date is from 1956. The gold examples are earlier.

The gold boxes appear to be about 1/8" wider, but are otherwise the same as the blue boxes. Hence, I have to conclude that all of mine shipped with Magna-equipped revolvers (which fit nicely in them). If what Roy reports is accurate (no reason to assume otherwise), then there are different boxes out there to be found!

I must say it appears that Walt's photos only complicate the matter! He shows us a gold box that is bigger than the blue, but isn't yet large enough to accommodate a revolver fitted with target stocks. Good grief! Where will this end?

I'm wondering if the boxes with slightly different dimensions are simply from different lots (perhaps even different manufacturers). Does anyone know what company (or companies) was (were) supplying boxes to S&W during this era? Or in what quantities they were purchased?

 

[glowe]

I guess we will have to buy every gold K box on ebay until we find one of those jumbo boxes! Walter Rego - the dimensions you show for your gold box is the same as all mine in the earlier photo, so Jack is correct that a target stocked Masterpiece will not fit in that size box.

We are all waiting for someone to show us a jumbo gold box.

 

[H Richard]

I clarified with Roy. They used whatever box was available that would fit.


Thank you very much Roy, but were these "Gold Boxes" or just an of the shelf generic box to fit the early target stocked Masterpieces?
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967

SWCA #1
Posts: 8,843
Commentaries: 2
Likes: 2
Liked 1,348 Times in 455 Posts
Default
Dick, they were gold boxes, but they might use one for a larger frame gun if they did not have them on had at the time they need the box and then use an end label or cross out the other gun information. But they also had some gold boxes with out gun labels on them. Roy
__________________
Roy G. Jinks
Historian, Smith & Wesson
Reply With Quote

 

[Speedo2]

My motley collection of k-frame gold boxes all have 4 tabs. I have one early (solid frame) k-38 target blue/black box with 5 tabs; that one is labeled "Target Stocks" and is about 1/8" taller than the gold boxes. My gold N-frame boxes all have 5 tabs. -S2

 

[glowe]

My motley collection of k-frame gold boxes all have 4 tabs. I have one early (solid frame) k-38 target blue/black box with 5 tabs; that one is labeled "Target Stocks" and is about 1/8" taller than the gold boxes. My gold N-frame boxes all have 5 tabs. -S2

Do you have a K frame with targets that you can put in the box and photograph? You know what they sea, seeing is believing.

 

[Speedo2]

As requested:






I'm not disputing that there may be some 5-tab, gold k-frame boxes; I've just never run into one. -S2

Edited to add: the box and grips are not original to the gun; just put them together to show how they fit.

 

[glowe]

Thanks for those pictures. Now we have clear evidence & can rest comfortably tonight. I now have a basis to conclude that the same large size was most likely available with gold boxes as well.

Another mystery solved, and you have noted how to tell from pictures if it the box is for target or Magna stocks by counting the number of knobs on the corner reinforcing metal. The search is on!