To the 1911 experts: bad gun or bad mags?

[H Richard]

I have a half dozen Wilson mags I've been using since the mid 80's, and have no problems in any of my 1911's, Colt, Springfield, RIA. I have never changed out the springs, but I don't let them sit loaded up. I primarily use 200 gr cast lead SWC's and they feed reliably in all the 1911's.

 

[model70hunter]

Check the lips on the 2 mags that have issues.

New does not always mean perfect. I ordered some mags a couple of months ago. One came out of it's wrap with a damaged lip I did not notice until I as as loading it. I would check to see if they are bent. Or dings on the side.

 

[Harkrader]

Between Sigs issued to me and those I've owned I have experience with some 50 in most models. I currently have a Scorpion Carry, a 1911CA-BSS, and a 220/.45ACP.
Sigs are as reliable as the sunrise, WITH THEIR FACTORY MAGS.
ALL the troubles you describe occurred to me when I purchased after-market magazines by top manufacturers (and a couple junk stores).

I suggest sorting it out with factory mags. If you still have trouble, it's time for a qualified person to take a look.

 

[therewolf]

I have had problems with Wilson mags in my Springfield

1911A1.

Have you shot the "break-in" rounds with the Sig yet?

AFAIK, most 1911s are a little rough till you get 5 to 10

boxes of 230 grn ball ammo through them.

I would try some different mags. It seems unlikely a Sig

would be the problem.

 

[Grayfox]

I never owned a Sig 1911 so I can't swear to it. But I have heard that they do require a pretty good break in period. I'd get at least 500 rounds through it before getting too worried.
As for Wilson mags, they are my most trusted mag. I've got a dozen or more of them and they are all I use for carry or competition. They work perfectly in all my 1911s. Some of them are getting pretty old and still work every single time. I suppose bad mags are possible. But honestly, I'd question the gun rather than a Wilson mag.

 

[Mike in Reedley]

Typically if a 1911 doesn't reliability lock back with quality magazines the slide stop is undersize. I would compare the factory magazine followers to those of the Wilsons. The Sig mags will probably be a touch wider and the portion that engages the slide stop will have a more pronounced edge. As you probably know, replacing the slide stop is easy and will likely solve the issue. Good luck.

 

[American1776]

Thanks for all the great advice. Lots of knowledgeable folks here. I'm always learning.

I'm thinking on buying a Wilson 'bullet proof' slide stop. I think the SIG slide stop is a generic MIM anyway. I'm assuming the Wilson is a drop in piece that doesn't require fitting?

Also, while my local range is closed for renovations, and the closest range is 50 minutes away, I decided to hand-cycle a magazine full with the factory mags, and there wasn't a problem. every round fed smoothly, and locked the slide on empty.

Maybe it just needs the SIG factory mags and a new slide stop.

 

[kilo charlie]

For what its worth...my Kimber runs 100% with Wilson Combat mags, not so with Kimber mags.
My borther's Colt loves Kimber mags....go fiigure.

 

[Flattop5]

Several comments:

1. is the gun properly "broken in" yet?

2. Don't use grease. It slows moving parts. You don't want to slow moving parts. Use oil. (Grease is okay for bolt-action and lever-action guns).

3. the best-functioning 1911s are bone-stock Colts with Colt 7-round mags, firing ball ammo. A 1911 expert once told me that, and my long experience confirms it. (Other 1911 manufacturers often deviate too much from the original Browning design).

4. if you can, try Colt mags. They might work fine in your SIG.



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[Mike in Reedley]

A new slide stop should drop right in, I suggest a Wilson. You can also buy an oversized one that requires fitting. Fitting is not difficult, but requires filing, try fit and live firing and usually more of the same. I'd try a drop in first.

 

[Watchdog]

I bought a new SIG 1911 Nitron with the Rail. Gun feels great. Took it to the range today with 215 rounds of 230 gr.FMJ ammo (Fiocchi, Blazer, WWB). Bought 4 magazines, all new. 2 7 round Wilson Combats, 2 8 round Wilson combats.

I'm just curious...was there something wrong with the factory magazines? This is a brand new pistol, right? Or did you just feel the need to have more mags?

 

[Otreb]

It seems like the diversity of magazines hasn't led anywhere, so I'd be looking at extractor tension and breech face.

 

[American1776]

I'm just curious...was there something wrong with the factory magazines? This is a brand new pistol, right? Or did you just feel the need to have more mags?

I had these 4 new Wilson's from having owned 1911s in the past. I should have tried the factory mags

 

[dmar]

Thanks everyone for the informative replies.

1) I did clean it and lubricate it well prior to the range visit.
2) I have a good amount of experience with 1911's. I've owned 2 prior to this one. A Sig Carry model that had problems. A Colt XSE that was very good. And this one.
3). As to the limp wristing: I purposely limp-wristed the pistol WITH THE GOOD MAGS, and couldn't get the gun to malfunction. I should say, the only REAL stoppages were to the two FTF in the very beginning. After that, just one of the mags would sometimes fail to RTB when charging the first round, and the other 7 rounder wouldn't lock the slide back (but that mag was reliable as well, no stoppages).
4) Probably the big mistake was that I didn't try the OEM mags, just assuming that the Wilsons would be better anyway.
5). While it's nice to know this gun works 100 percent with two of my magazines, it's a little disconcerting to know that it's so magazine sensitive that it might not work with another magazine of the same maker.

I own around 20 1911s, all of them Colts, except for one Custom Shop (expensive...) Kimber and a WWII Remington Rand. Believe it, or not, but I've had no reliability issues out of any of these guns, except for the Kimber that I bought new. Ended up that I had to send the Kimber back for them to rework the slide fit. The problem was exacerbated by the *** factory mag that came with the Kimber. After their fix, the gun has been 100%. That experience turned me off to Kimbers, and reinforced my trust in Colt 1911s...

Also, I mostly run Wilson mags, and they have all worked great. Where you are 50/50 on your new Wilsons, I would suspect gun issues more than mag issues. If I were you I'd run some more ammo through it to see if it 'breaks in' with use. You should not have to break in a new/expensive gun, but some of these do come out pretty tight.

I'd also try some other mags, and note any issues. After a few hundred more rounds, if it still has issues with a variety of mags, I'd insist they take it in to look at it. I didn't see where you mentioned what ammo you are using, reloads...?

Personally, unless it's a known high-end custom maker, I wouldn't bother buying any 1911 that's not a Colt. Colt knows what they're doing with the 1911 platform, and their quality a very good. A good friend of mine has an older Sig 1911, nice gun and it's been reliable for him. YMMV. Good luck with your issue, and keep us updated.

 

[KLiK]

I bought a new SIG 1911 Nitron with the Rail. Gun feels great. Took it to the range today with 215 rounds of 230 gr.FMJ ammo (Fiocchi, Blazer, WWB). Bought 4 magazines, all new. 2 7 round Wilson Combats, 2 8 round Wilson combats.

In the first few magazines, I had two FTF. These occured with the the 7 rounders. After that, heres what happened.

One of the 8 rounders would fail to feed the first round (round would go halfway in, then stop. One of the 7 rounders would always fail to lock the slide on the last round. The other two magazines, 7 rounder and 8 rounder each, were reliable. No further problems with them.

So, I must ask the question for the 1911 guys and gals: Should I consider this a good gun, but bad mags? Or, is the SIG likely a problem, along with those two mags? Or, is this just a lemon of a gun?

When it has those two 'good' magazines in it (the 7 rounder and the 8 rounder), if doesn't seem to have any problems. The other two have the problems mentioned.

Any thoughts? Keep the gun and keep shooting it? Try a different magazine company?

Many thanks!

Have had the same issue with WC steel base mags with the steel follower. The round catches on the top of the mag and gets stuck. With the standard WC mags that have the plastic follower I have not had any issues with those. Few of them I've had for over 10years and loaded for 98% of their life and they still function perfectly.

As others have stated with a new 1911 the tolerances are tight and it may take 300 or more rounds to "break" it in.

These are the WC mags I've had the best luck with:
Wilson Combat 1911 Magazine | 8 Round .45 ACP | Full-Size-Wilson Combat

 

[Fishslayer]

One of the 8 rounders would fail to feed the first round (round would go halfway in, then stop. One of the 7 rounders would always fail to lock the slide on the last round. The other two magazines, 7 rounder and 8 rounder each, were reliable. No further problems with them.

Any 1911 should feed FMJ right out of the box.

Most 1911 feed problems originate in the magazines. Most of the rest can be traced to the extractor. Yes... the extractor plays a vital role in reliable feeding in a 1911.

I don't happen to worship at the alter of Wilson Combat as far as magazines go. Overpriced & overrated IMHO. As has been mentioned the 47D were notorious. The ETM fixed the problems. Personally, I've found that Checkmates and Mecgars work in everything I have.

There is a whole load of info on the web re 1911 extractor testing & tuning. The tension test is pretty straight forward and you can decide for yourself how to deal with it.

Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app&gws_rd=ssl#q=1911+extractor+test

I'm just curious...was there something wrong with the factory magazines? This is a brand new pistol, right? Or did you just feel the need to have more mags?

You only have the 1 or 2 magazines that came with your pistols?

 

[WVSig]

Ok I am not a 1911 expert by any stretch. I own about a dozen currently and about another 12 have pass through my collection at one time or another including a original Sig GSR.

The first thing I want to point out is that the majority, I would put it at about 90% of feeding issues are mag related. I believe you have a mag related issue but pics of the actual malfunction will help to truly diagnose the issue. The fact it runs 100% with some mags and only fails with others is a clue. If it was truly a lemon it would be failing with the mags in the same manner however you are describing 2 different failures with only some mags.

In the first few magazines, I had two FTF. These occured with the the 7 rounders. After that, heres what happened.

Knowing exactly what kind of FTF would help.

There is a whole load of info on the web re 1911 extractor testing & tuning. The tension test is pretty straight forward and you can decide for yourself how to deal with it.

Take your pick.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source=...extractor+test

This is a Sig 1911 and it uses an external extractor similar to the S&W 1911s so IMHO you can ignore all the advice about extractor. You cannot remove it and it is not a user serviceable part like the GI internal extractor. It does not suffer from the same issues the GI extractor does and none of the tricks of the trade used to get a GI extractor functioning properly applies to these external extractors. This is one of the reasons I do not buy Sig or S&W 1911s.

My advice is don't polish anything. It is not the feedramp. It is not the slide stop. You do not need to replace the Sig MIM part unless it fails. If it fails have Sig send you a new one under warranty. The MIM Sig initially used was poor quality. These days it is decent and unless you are going to change out the rest of the MIM I would not bother. Also inspect the slide stop for wear or damage. I suspect in a new pistol you won't see any. There is a chance it is out of spec but with MIM parts this is less common than tooled steel because of the process used to manufacture them.

It is the mags IMHO. The factory mags are checkmates. They are decent 1911 mags. I prefer Chip Mccormick Power mags, or whatever they are calling them today, but the Checkmates should be fine.

I would inspect the Wilson mags feedlips. Are they ETMs or 47Ds. The 47D 8 rounders are the worst mag that Wilson everp produced IMHO. It is basically a 7 rounder with slight follower modification to allow you to cram 8 in there. As a result they suffer from premature spring fatigue and feeding lip deformation.

I would definitely get back to the range and fire the gun with the factory mags. I would also inspect the Wilson mags that work vs the ones that don't and see if you can detect a difference. If they look the same but continue to fail in the same manner swap the guts from a working Wilson into a failing Wilson.

-Do the follower first. Fire and see if the failures continue. If they go away then it is the follower.

-If they continue swap the spring. If they then go away you have a spring issue.

-If the new spring and follower still fail in the same manner its the tube, more than likely the feeding lips.

For the mag which does not lock the slide back look closely at the portion of the mag which engages the slide lock. Look for deformation or excessive wear but weak spring tension can also cause this failure. Remember premature spring fatigue is an issue with 47D mags.

I am willing by doing this you will find a combination that will correct the issue and lead you to a solution. If nothing solves it call Sig for customer support and send it in especially if you have trouble with the factory mags. Good luck.

 

[Fishslayer]

This is a Sig 1911 and it uses a internal extractor similar to the S&W 1911s so IMHO you can ignore all the advice about extractor. You cannot remove it and it is not a user serviceable part like the GI external extractor. It does not suffer from the same issues the GI extractor does and none of the tricks of the trade used to get a GI extractor functioning properly applies to these internal extractors. This is one of the reasons I do not buy Sig or S&W 1911s.

.

Whatever you say...

 

[WVSig]

Whatever you say...

Mean to type external extractor for Sig 1911s. For some reason I got them backwards this morning. Swap "internal" with "external" and the rest makes sense. You cannot tune the external extractors. My mind was not functioning properly LOL.