Unique, data differences in 9mm

[moxie]

I was running Berry's 115 gr fmj RN's . I was watching for over pressure signs but my primers looked excellent all the way up to 5.8 gr. My RO is brand new so the stovepipes may be resulting from a new pistol that's still tight. Once the weather gets better I want to get my Crony out and get some velocities. My 5.8 load could possibly be a bit "hot" and I don't like pushing bullets to max.

For 115 gr. GDHP and TMJs, the Speer #14 goes all the way up to 6.3 Unique. So you SHOULD be OK.

BUT, looking for pressure signs like flattened primers is a notoriously bad and possibly unsafe way to work up a load. Chances are you're in dangerous territory BEFORE you see any signs. Agree on holding off until you can get out the chrono and check the loads in your gun.

BTW, 5.8 grs. Unique is not a light load and the gun should cycle just fine with it. Those two stovepipes are likely due to something else. The extractor could be slightly off. Are you checking case rims to make sure they aren't dinged or boogered up?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Feeding and ejection problems can be caused by a lot of different things, since a pistol is a tuned weapon vs a "Slop Gun" like the revolver that is like a old timex.

To start off with the magazine can be messed up or not feeding
the unit up the inside due to rough areas or a weak spring.

The OAL of the bullet can also cause a lot of problems if not correct for the pistol.

Too low or too high a velocity can also have a bearing on how the pistol functions.

I have one 9mm that shot target loads great but start feeding
it full loads with a HP bullet and I was having all kinds of problems.

Things will iron out after a while but some times you will not
always get the load that you wanted. I have found out that
accuracy comes and goes with the changing of the fps of loads.
Good luck finding a load you are happy with.

 

[Road_Clam]

For 115 gr. GDHP and TMJs, the Speer #14 goes all the way up to 6.3 Unique. So you SHOULD be OK.

BUT, looking for pressure signs like flattened primers is a notoriously bad and possibly unsafe way to work up a load. Chances are you're in dangerous territory BEFORE you see any signs. Agree on holding off until you can get out the chrono and check the loads in your gun.

BTW, 5.8 grs. Unique is not a light load and the gun should cycle just fine with it. Those two stovepipes are likely due to something else. The extractor could be slightly off. Are you checking case rims to make sure they aren't dinged or boogered up?

I didn't experience any stovepipes with the 5.8 load, I had 2 stovepipe jams testing the 5.2 gr load.

 

[flyrobb]

Actually my Speer manual shows the 124gr bullet with MORE powder...............

Full loads are a lot nicer to shoot if your pistol is close to 30 ounces or more........... but you can always down load.

Is that an older Speer manual? My Speer #14 shows the 5.2-5.8 for 124gr and 5.6 to 6.3 for the 115gr.

Anyway I think I'll start at the 5.0 and go up from there for my 124gr RN Extreme. That should be a safe starting point.

 

[moxie]

I didn't experience any stovepipes with the 5.8 load, I had 2 stovepipe jams testing the 5.2 gr load.

Ah, I didn't understand that.

Speer #14 calls for 5.6-6.3 Unique with the 115 gr. The 5.2 load is below starting and could be the culprit for stovepipes.

The range for 124gr. bullets is 5.2-5.8. Did these get mixed up?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Yes, that manual is an oldie but goodie. Name withheld to protect the innocent.

The starting and maximum loads in manuals are what that source, thinks is best for you and your weapon with the equipment and supplies on hand, during their testing.

I have gone below many manuals in their starting loads to get sub-sonic loads but one must also understand what is taking place, doing so.
I would never do this without a chrony.
In my m49 snub nose I have had a 125 jhp as low as 644-751 fps in one powder and a 158 Lwc at 505-534 fps with another powder. Both were probably very close to a "Squib" load.

The manuals data is to prevent you from a squib and also a full load that my bring damage to you and others as well as possibly destroying a weapon.

99% of most shooters are happy with the data but there is always an odd ball out there some where..........

ps;
Some where on this site is a picture of a 9mm 124gr plated bullet test with six loads with one powder putting out just 701 fps. Some how, all the bullets managed to clear the barrel.
Don't try this kids, I got lucky.

 

[Road_Clam]

Ah, I didn't understand that.

Speer #14 calls for 5.6-6.3 Unique with the 115 gr. The 5.2 load is below starting and could be the culprit for stovepipes.

The range for 124gr. bullets is 5.2-5.8. Did these get mixed up?

The problem with the 115 gr data with Unique is that i'ts all over the place as far as min and max loads. No relative consistency. There does seem to be better consistency with the 124 gr data. I also received feedback that the long standing "go to" 9mm load for 115gr was 5.5 gr of Unique. So I took that data, started at 5.2 and worked up to a max of 5.8 which is simply a conservative max charge number that I felt comfortable with with my new 1911. I didn't want to be pushing 6+ grain loads in a pistol that's new to me. After some range love I might try loading 6+'s but for now I just want to keep it conservative. Again, once the weather gets better, i will get my crono out and track velocities when testing. I'm more of an experienced precision rifle loader , handguns are relatively new to me.

 

[zeke]

The hornady manual has unusually low charges for unique in 9mm, and has had for along time. Am betting they had a fast lot way back when, and if you have a collection of hdy manuals, those charges go way back.

Either that or they just didn't like/list compressed charges. Unique is an excellent powder for 9mm accuracy/velocity, but expect to compress at anywhere near an upper charge level.

 

[Road_Clam]

The hornady manual has unusually low charges for unique in 9mm, and has had for along time. Am betting they had a fast lot way back when, and if you have a collection of hdy manuals, those charges go way back.

Either that or they just didn't like/list compressed charges. Unique is an excellent powder for 9mm accuracy/velocity, but expect to compress at anywhere near an upper charge level.

+1 , when I was getting up to my 5.8gr charge i'm seeing the powder level nearing the top of the casing and I was thinking out loud to myself "dam, that looks like i'm getting near a compressed load". So i'm guessing the 6.3 gr charge must be compressed.

 

[fredj338]

I am looking to load some 9's using Unique with Xtreme 124 RN. My two data sources are quite different. I'm referencing the two closest sources I have to the bullet I am using.

Speer #14 data using 124 TMJ RN with a COL of 1.135 list a start of 5.2(1080), max of 5.8(1180) and from what I understand these are plated bullets.

Hornady using 124 FMJ-RN with a COL of 1.150 list a start of 4.0(900) and a max of 5.0(1100) I know these are jacketed and Xtreme site recommends using mid range jacketed data and high end lead.

Also if you have any other sources that might help that would be great. I'm wondering how you guys would treat this data to start loading with a powder you haven't used before.

Note the Hornday data, at least in the older manuals, lumps all their 124gr bullets in the same powder charge. So I suspect they are pretty conservative, at least my own chrono testing shows this. The Speer data is closer to reality IMO. Just make sure you match your bullets profile to the data. Bullets are not plug & play, especially at the top end. Plated are not jacketed or TMJ & neither are a lead bullet. They all react diff to the same powder charge.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Here is a test with the Speer 124gr Gold Dot with several powders to give you an idea of what fps each can put out.
The Unique was not a maximum load but close and was about 98% from the factory load in a short barrel.

Note, this is with a 3.5" barrel.

 

[Magload]

Ed what distance were those groups shot at and were they over a rest or not? If they are past 10 yards i got a lot of work to do. Don

 

[Nevada Ed]

My chrony was set at 12 feet and the target behind it at around 14 feet.
I used a rest with a sand bag but it was mostly to keep from hitting my chrony.

I will be going in for double cataract surgery and astigmatism next week !! Hoping I can see better with the rear and front sight and finding the target.
Getting old is the pits..........

 

[Magload]

My chrony was set at 12 feet and the target behind it at around 14 feet.
I used a rest with a sand bag but it was mostly to keep from hitting my chrony.

I will be going in for double cataract surgery and astigmatism next week !! Hoping I can see better with the rear and front sight and finding the target.
Getting old is the pits..........

Ed good luck with the surgery I had it in both eyes it is a piece of cake. They but new lenses in both eyes and if it was for the astigmatism I still have i would not need glasses. The right eye my master also later got a corneal transplant and I sometimes wear a contact in that eye that corrects all the astigmatism. I use mono vision my left is only for reading. Works good but I have to close it to shoot. Don