An Interesting (to me) Old Winchester Model 12

[Watchdog]

looks like I'm going to have to keep an eye out for one. I don't hunt, but i'd like to have a nice representative model now that ive contracted Winchester fever.

Well, you shouldn't have to look very far. Depending on where you live, I guess. Lots of people seem only too eager to dump their older shotguns in favor of "newer and better" ones.

Last time I looked, there were five Model 12s in the rack at one LGS. None like mine, though. The factory riot guns seem to be in hiding.

Matter of fact, I'm seeing more quality old doubles on the used racks now, too. Fox, Parker, L. C. Smiths in all gauges and barrel lengths. I believe if someone were just starting out collecting, now would be the time to snap up a bunch of the old classics.

 

[HARDWARE]

I was shocked to see the prices that model 21s are bringing.

dad had an old model 24 when I was a kid. I have fond memories of that.. but everybody seems to regard them as hideous old clunkers.

 

[weatherby]

WATCHDOG
A friend has this one anything you can tell me about it?
All I have is an old picture....sorry not much to go on.
It was in real nice shape though

 

[pinoakflats]

My model 12

I own one model 12, in a 16 gauge, full choke 28"

When folks ask me about my mom, I tell them about my model 12.
She was the oldest daughter, second child, in a family of 7 kids. Her older brother wanted nothing to do with the hunting sports, so she became her dad's hunting companion and outdoor sidekick at an early age in the rural south. Ducks, quail, rabbits, etc.....

My dad was cut from the same cloth, and back then where they grew up hunting wasn't just for sport, it put food on the table.

So they were married in the early 50's and for a wedding present my mother received the new model 12 from my dad. I wish I knew how many mallards she dropped with the old Winchester. I know she carried it years later when they would take my brother and I on various hunting adventures. My brother has her model 63, both in great condition.

Of course dad had to cut the stock off for her because she wasn't a man sized woman, at least in stature. Several years ago I purchased a period correct stock that matches the fore stock almost perfectly.

I took the original shortened stock to a fellow who makes custom ink pens. He was able to make 5 beautiful walnut presentation pens from the stock. I kept one, gave one to my bother, two to my two sons, and the 5th to my brothers son.

Someday my boys will get to fight over the model 12, until then it's mine, and is one of the sweetest memories I have of one tough mother!!

 

[dtkjenstad]

I still have my Dads Model 12. Shot a lot of pheasants/grouse with that gun.

 

[Watchdog]

WATCHDOG
A friend has this one anything you can tell me about it?
All I have is an old picture....sorry not much to go on.
It was in real nice shape though

Let's be clear...I'm no expert source for Model 12 information. What I can tell just from your photo, if I'm remembering correctly, is that it's pre-1919. In 1919, Winchester stopped stamping them "Mod. 1912", and offered them in 12-gauge after 1913. Too bad you don't have the serial number...we could tell when it was manufactured.

Up until 1964, Winchester made almost two million of them in every barrel length, gauge, and configuration you can think of.

A fancy engraved and inlaid Model 12 Pigeon Grade is a work of art and something to behold. There was one in the classic gun room of an LGS years ago, and it just seemed to glow there in the rack...it just lit up the room.

I'm partial to the factory riot configuration and the authentic trench guns for some reason. Over the years, I've passed up on some because I thought I couldn't afford them, even one that had Navy markings on it that I could've had for less than $800. Looking back, I should have found the money somewhere, somehow. Going to shops and gun shows now, I can count on one hand the number of factory riot guns I've seen for sale in the past five years.

There's an expression in the muscle car world..."There's no substitute for cubic inches."

Well, in the shotgun world, there's absolutely no substitute for finely machined steel, that deep blue finish, and beautifully checkered and finished walnut.

 

[Watchdog]

I own one model 12, in a 16 gauge, full choke 28"

When folks ask me about my mom, I tell them about my model 12.

What a great story! One of the best posts I've ever read. Thanks for posting.

 

[Watchdog]

I was shocked to see the prices that model 21s are bringing.

Model 21s have been pretty much priced out of my league for decades. I can't remember the last time I've even seen one.

dad had an old model 24 when I was a kid. I have fond memories of that.. but everybody seems to regard them as hideous old clunkers.

I had a 16-gauge 24 in the early seventies. I was attracted to its extremely streamlined shape and their overall sturdiness. They reminded me of late Art Deco design and the first streamlined train engines. They're doubles that have everything you need and nothing you don't, and still have that look that sets them apart from other generic doubles of that period.

They are anything but clunkers.

Guy at a gun show here had four of them on his table...cheapest was $400, most expensive one (a 12-gauge) was $799. I looked long and hard at that one, but had no earthly use for it.

 

[Big E3]

I was at a gun show last year, standing around talking to a friend of mine outside before we went in. This guy came up, he was obviously a bit down on his luck. He was carrying a Model 12 Heavy Duck on a homemade sling over his shoulder. And when I say "sling", I'm being generous. It was a piece of rope tied at the magazine tube and knotted again around the pistol grip on the stock. It had some finish loss on the barrel and the stock was a bit dinged up, but still looked okay. He wanted $300 for it. Told him I couldn't help him and he says, okay, I'll let you have it for $200.

Now, I was at that show cause I was looking for something specific, so I passed on that as well. Went back to talking to my friend, and about five minutes later it just hit me, I was crazy to pass that up for two hundred bucks. I looked around but the guy was gone, disappeared into the hundreds of cars and people in the parking lot. Never saw him again.

Oh, and I didn't find what I went to the show to find, either...so it was a lost day for me all around.

Live and learn.

I know what you mean, I get my mind made up on trying to find something else and can't see the forest for the trees. I passed up a model 12 a few years back that was missing most of the blue but was still tight for $125. I had it in my hands and let a guy talk me out of it because he had one like it, growing up.

I picked up my Heavy Duck for $165 in 1997, which even back then was a good price, but I sure wish I had that $125 shooter. I guess that guy made a better case for needing it more and I too was not looking for one at the time.

 

[Swengen]

Congrats on that fine shotgun. My father passed one down to me many years ago. 26" improved cylinder. Have enjoyed many a quail and rabbit dinner thanks to that gun. From my hands it will go to my son.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

 

[deingy]

Dads old gun

My dad lost his father when he was 10 and was loaned out to another farmer who had no children. This farmer had a Model 12 in 16 ga and would hunt at the drop of a hat. My dad obtained that gun in the 60s and in the 70s I sent it to Simens Gun for a vent rib and refinishing as a present. It needed it. They did a beautiful job and I inherited it in 1990. Great gun that make me look better than I am at trap. It will go to my son if I can keep it away from the liberals.

 

[Jim_in_Houston]

You might be interested in this book . . .

John Hewitt wrote for Gray's Sporting Journal for many years. He is now retired in Fairbanks, Alaska. Several of his articles have been collected in his book, The Model 12 Winchester as a Way of Life.

It is available from Hopper Creek Press, and it is well worth a read - https://hoppercreekpress.com/books/.

 

[Watchdog]

John Hewitt wrote for Gray's Sporting Journal for many years. He is now retired in Fairbanks, Alaska. Several of his articles have been collected in his book, The Model 12 Winchester as a Way of Life.

Thanks for pointing me in that direction...I'll check it out.

 

[HARDWARE]

Thanks for pointing me in that direction...I'll check it out.

Thanks for renewing my interest in the fine classic model 12.

Standby for a new thread...

 

[Tom_R]

I have one in 20 gauge that was left to me from my dads collection.

The finish is rough, but it does cycle. I have not actually shot this one, even though I have had it for 20 years. I guess I need to remedy that.

It does have a rib on the top, which I have been told is kind of rare.

I may sell it as I don't really have a use for it.

 

[wundudnee]

That is a beautiful model 12 riot Watchdog. It had to have lived in a cool, dark and dry place for many of it's years. I have two model 12s, a 20 ga. made in 1963 and my seriously bubba customized military 12 gauge.

I bought this gun in 1954 from Montgomery Wards for $55.00. It came with a sheep lined Boyt case. Somebody gave it the full treatment, Weaver choke, Rubber butt plate, beavertail fore end, checkered stock and grip cap. The checkered stock still shows the WB cartouche. It has all the military proofs, U.S., flaming bombs and cyl. marked.

I have hunted with this old girl all my life and have shot a ton of quail and pheasants, so I like it as it is, but if it had been left alone it would be a great collector. As you can see, it's been used and loved a lot.

 

[Watchdog]

I have one in 20 gauge that was left to me from my dads collection.

The finish is rough, but it does cycle. I have not actually shot this one, even though I have had it for 20 years. I guess I need to remedy that.

It does have a rib on the top, which I have been told is kind of rare.

I may sell it as I don't really have a use for it.

At one time, Winchester offered a version of the Model 12 called the Super Field or Super Field Grade. It had the solid rib, recoil pad, and wood that, as a whole, was a grade higher than just the regular field grade. It also had two ivory beads...a front and a middle bead. I can't tell from your photo if yours has two beads or not.

The Super Field Grade version was available in the Heavy Duck Gun and the Trap Gun, I remember that. I like the look of the solid rib in a gun used for hunting.

Being honest with you, I don't know if I'd sell that 20-gauge of yours or not. Then again, I'm often overly sentimental about old guns and other stuff owned by my own father.

I'd be interested to know when your shotgun was made. It has what looks to be some honest wear, but it looks just fine to me.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I have and use 2.........A mdl. 1912 with 32" full solid rib bbl and a 2nd 27" cylinder bore bbl. assy......Those are nickel steel and the bores are still mirror smooth and flawlessly bright....My 2nd one is a 20 ga. from 1957 with 28" modified bbl......The first one ws used extensively for deer(dogging with buckshot) and the second one is a great dove gun.

BTW I wore a 1200 and broke a 1300. They are stamped metal junk compared to a mdl. 12. And a way lessor gun than an 870.

 

[DRB]

Somewhere in dark recess of one of my safes I have a consecutively numbered pair of model 12 riot guns marked Washington State Patrol on the side by the factory. A local store took about 125 in on trade like 20+ years ago. I bought 4 my dad who had an FFL bought 20 of them. Price was $185 each. In the four I bought one set was consecutive in my dads there were 3 sets. The guns were from the early 60s late 50s era. My dad has sold all his long ago and I only kept the one set myself. This spring I bought a bucket list model 12 a Trap gun in 20 gauge with solid rib mid to late 40s era. I am not going to say how much I paid for it because I am sure was way to much and it came with a Marlin 410 lever gun another bucket list gun. I now have a small collection of WSP marked guns. As an aside a good friend of one of my sons is now a WSP patrolman.

 

[msinc]

I've seen quite a few of the Model 12 Heavy Duck guns. I doubt if many are used for duck hunting today. I understand the M12 barrels will not handle steel shot. But the Remington 870 barrels will. The last time I went duck hunting, steel shot wasn't required. I really do not miss the duck hunting experience - too wet and too cold. And my wife never liked to fix duck. I often gave my ducks to others so I wouldn't have to contend with her.

The barrels will handle steel shot no problem...it's the full choke that don't like it. I have a duck gun and I tried it on some woodies once. It would not eject the 3" Remington hulls I had. It looked like the ejection port was not quite long enough and every shell would try to hang in the receiver. I figured it was maybe sized for the mostly roll crimped ammo of the period. I have plenty of guns to shoot, so I put it back in the safe. Maybe this is why they aren't used for duck hunting much these days???

I'm amazed now at the prices I see on Model 42s. It just seems in the past three years, their value has skyrocketed. It isn't unusual to see a nice 42 marked at $1500-$2000 now.

Yep, there is something about a 410 that I never got...even though I paid $2200.00 for my two barrel set 42. Model 21's have been ridiculous for a while, I only have one, a Tournament grade 20 ga. Paid waaaaayyyyyyy toooooooo much for it.