I get 3 magazines. The last issues of each had more on 2-3 thousand dollar handguns and rifle scopes than anything else. They are nice to look at but how many folks can afford to spend two or three house payments fro a weapon ? Also do they really shoot better than a less expensive one. I have a Colt reworked by an excellent gunsmith and a RIA. The only thing done to the RIA was a different extractor. My groups are pretty much the same with both. Both function flawlessly. Just wonder if they are that much better or are they mainly just an ego thing? I am never going to have a 4K$ 1911. Don't want one. If someone wants to spend that kind of money it their option. If they can spend that kind money and their wife lets them live more power to them. Unless you're a competition shooter I just wonder if they're worth it.
High $ Handguns
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I think there is a diminishing return on the real expensive guns and scopes (excluding collector stuff which is even crazier, like a Colt Python or something)
So say a Ed Brown 1911. Yes, they are super well made and have great fit.finish parts etc. But for the average Joe do they shoot that much better than a Colt, Dan Wesson or pick a name.
Over $1K or so home much better are they??
Kinda like classy cars you can spend whatever if you have it
So say a Ed Brown 1911. Yes, they are super well made and have great fit.finish parts etc. But for the average Joe do they shoot that much better than a Colt, Dan Wesson or pick a name.
Over $1K or so home much better are they??
Kinda like classy cars you can spend whatever if you have it
rjm6120
Member
I genuinely envy the folks that have the financial ability to plunk down $1,000 and more on a handgun, specifically S&W's. If I had that kind of cash I know I would!! I really don't view it as any kind of an ego thing---if you can do it, go for it!! You can't take the $$ with you, after all. I am ok with the fact that I can't afford those high-dollar guns, and am very happy with some lower cost ones that I have accumulated i.e., RIA .45, Rugers and yes some Tauri. All of which function without hiccups, are accurate and fun to shoot.
If you are a bullseye shooter, yes they are.
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From my experience the higher priced handguns offer better fit and finish, better triggers and sights, better ergonomics ONLY UP TO A POINT! 
Let's talk 1911's for example because every major Company now makes them. Ed Brown, Les Behr, Wilson Combat etc. are all high end, beautifully finished guns, shoot accurately, and have lots of attention payed to details. That's the great part. The part I do not care for is that they usually require 1,000 round break in periods, cost $2500 - $5000 and at least in my experience do not handle hand loaded ammo very well. Many of my shooting friends own these high end guns and almost every single one has gone back to their Factories to get them to feed reliably. Some even had to go back a second time EVEN AFTER the break in periods. To me a high end target gun that will not shoot properly made reloads (sized to spec) is worthless! Some of these high end Company's even give you an attitude when a gun needs tweaking - after spending BIG BUCKS, that's something that is NOT warranted!
My own 1911's are all Colts and they range from WWll vintage to modern Gold Cups. To me the Colts are reasonably priced, shoot quite accurately, fit and finish is excellent, their sights (on the target models) are at least as good and in most cases better than the high end guns, customer service is descent and best of all THEY WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX with any and all of the reloaded ammo I have ever fed them!
Just about any 1911 made by a reputable company now-days will outshoot most of us and I can shoot my 1940's 1970's 1980's and current vintage Colts as good as any Ed, Les, Wilson etc. The Colts lack some of the fancy Dan features the others may have such as finely cut checkering on the Back Straps, Front Straps and cuts on the front of the barrel, Tactical Grips, luminescent sights and fancy Torx style screws, but to me that stuff is all window dressing anyway. The deep bluing on most of my Colts blows away the satin finishes and modern applied finishes of the high end guns (at least to me). The Gold Cup triggers I own are all around the 3 - 3.25 pound range and crisp and precise just as the high end guns are. The ocassional one with a stiff trigger is easily and quickly adjusted to what I like and so that is not a big issue for me. 1911's are easy to work on if you've been at this game for a while and have the tools and ability to do so.
So it is my opinion that a $1000 - $1300 1911 will be far better than a $600 one but once you get past $14 - $1500 the return on the price spent rapidly diminishes. Ultra tight high end guns are great of you shoot only factory hardball ammo but to me if a gun will not reliably shoot MY hand loads it ain't worth the price of admission.
There are many many Smiths out there that were produced as "working guns" that will shoot as good or in many cases better than high end ultra expensive one will. Unless you get a lemon or damaged gun, most of the accuracy (or lack there of) lies on us.
Some here may not agree with me, and as always this is just my personal opinion.
Let's talk 1911's for example because every major Company now makes them. Ed Brown, Les Behr, Wilson Combat etc. are all high end, beautifully finished guns, shoot accurately, and have lots of attention payed to details. That's the great part. The part I do not care for is that they usually require 1,000 round break in periods, cost $2500 - $5000 and at least in my experience do not handle hand loaded ammo very well. Many of my shooting friends own these high end guns and almost every single one has gone back to their Factories to get them to feed reliably. Some even had to go back a second time EVEN AFTER the break in periods. To me a high end target gun that will not shoot properly made reloads (sized to spec) is worthless! Some of these high end Company's even give you an attitude when a gun needs tweaking - after spending BIG BUCKS, that's something that is NOT warranted!
My own 1911's are all Colts and they range from WWll vintage to modern Gold Cups. To me the Colts are reasonably priced, shoot quite accurately, fit and finish is excellent, their sights (on the target models) are at least as good and in most cases better than the high end guns, customer service is descent and best of all THEY WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX with any and all of the reloaded ammo I have ever fed them!
Just about any 1911 made by a reputable company now-days will outshoot most of us and I can shoot my 1940's 1970's 1980's and current vintage Colts as good as any Ed, Les, Wilson etc. The Colts lack some of the fancy Dan features the others may have such as finely cut checkering on the Back Straps, Front Straps and cuts on the front of the barrel, Tactical Grips, luminescent sights and fancy Torx style screws, but to me that stuff is all window dressing anyway. The deep bluing on most of my Colts blows away the satin finishes and modern applied finishes of the high end guns (at least to me). The Gold Cup triggers I own are all around the 3 - 3.25 pound range and crisp and precise just as the high end guns are. The ocassional one with a stiff trigger is easily and quickly adjusted to what I like and so that is not a big issue for me. 1911's are easy to work on if you've been at this game for a while and have the tools and ability to do so.
So it is my opinion that a $1000 - $1300 1911 will be far better than a $600 one but once you get past $14 - $1500 the return on the price spent rapidly diminishes. Ultra tight high end guns are great of you shoot only factory hardball ammo but to me if a gun will not reliably shoot MY hand loads it ain't worth the price of admission.
There are many many Smiths out there that were produced as "working guns" that will shoot as good or in many cases better than high end ultra expensive one will. Unless you get a lemon or damaged gun, most of the accuracy (or lack there of) lies on us.
Some here may not agree with me, and as always this is just my personal opinion.
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Targets Guy
US Veteran
Most "subject" magazines are like that. It sells copies. I'll stick with the bad finished unloved revolvers as long as they shoot where you aim. Can't ask much more of that out of a gun.
But some folks like the beautiful, fit and finished.
Like the old song said, "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life make an ugly woman your wife." True with guns IMHO.
But some folks like the beautiful, fit and finished.
Like the old song said, "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life make an ugly woman your wife." True with guns IMHO.
Arik
Member
To some extent they do shoot better. I don't know how custom the ones you're talking about are but they can get very personal. As in made specifically for your L.O.P. The action and trigger is smooth, the break open models have to be able to close tight on a dollar bill. Everything is usually hand made. 2 or 3 grand could be just the wood or just the engraving. Some of them new cost upward of $50k. But these arnt the type of guns that you take into the woods. They are driven out to a hunt and come out of their cases when ready to fire. No one hikes with them to their tree stand.
I have a few reletives who's car payment is more than those rifles. The house payment are closer to a new car
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I have a few reletives who's car payment is more than those rifles. The house payment are closer to a new car
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Had a Korth .22 and loved the gun. It's the Mercedes of handguns. The fit and finish were excellent. I would say it shot better then most .22 revolvers but I could not get the accuracy out of it that it was capable of. Shooting bullseye, my highest average was 267. If I was a 280 & above shooter, I would have kept it. I sold it at Tulsa and put some of the money in a custom .32 PPC gun. Andy Horvath is making it. You buy what your income is capable of. Why buy a Lexus when a Chevy will get you from point A to point B?? There are a lot of high end cars out there. Larry
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DeathGrip
US Veteran
You get what you pay for.
Hopefully.
Hopefully.
American1776
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I'm not rich, but I am in a position to buy one or two really nice handguns, and have a few decent ones. I'd rather have 4 really nice handguns than have 8-10 okay guns.
One of my nicest is a new production Ithaca 1911, which is every bit as hand built as the Les Baer or the like. All machined forged parts. They run just under 2k, and that's as high as I can go at this point in my life (I'm a dad to a young daughter and still building a career).
I do find the higher end stuff has noticeable increase in quality.
One of my nicest is a new production Ithaca 1911, which is every bit as hand built as the Les Baer or the like. All machined forged parts. They run just under 2k, and that's as high as I can go at this point in my life (I'm a dad to a young daughter and still building a career).
I do find the higher end stuff has noticeable increase in quality.
susieqz
Absent Comrade
i have to disagree that high dollar guns are needed for bulls eye.
i bot a cheapo 22/45 n put a couple hundred dollars in modifying it.
for $500, with my arms rested i can get a 1'' group at 25 yards.
i can already tell i'll get the same from my beat up model 15, for about the same money.
a 1'' group at 25 yards is my definition of a competition gun.
if i ever get to the point i can shoot like that one hand, i'd win every match around.
i'll put these guns up against any super expensive gun around.
the limiting factor is my skill, not the gun.
of course, you gotta buy smart to begin with.
i bot a cheapo 22/45 n put a couple hundred dollars in modifying it.
for $500, with my arms rested i can get a 1'' group at 25 yards.
i can already tell i'll get the same from my beat up model 15, for about the same money.
a 1'' group at 25 yards is my definition of a competition gun.
if i ever get to the point i can shoot like that one hand, i'd win every match around.
i'll put these guns up against any super expensive gun around.
the limiting factor is my skill, not the gun.
of course, you gotta buy smart to begin with.
Grayfox
US Veteran
If you can afford 'em and like 'em, more power to ya.
But the simple truth is that most of us average shooters just aren't capable of taking full advantage of what all those extra bucks bring. We can't shoot them any better than box stock production gun at less than half the price. I know I can't.
For those with the skills, they're worth the money. For the majority of us, its money wasted. So why bother?
But the simple truth is that most of us average shooters just aren't capable of taking full advantage of what all those extra bucks bring. We can't shoot them any better than box stock production gun at less than half the price. I know I can't.
For those with the skills, they're worth the money. For the majority of us, its money wasted. So why bother?
Rpg
Member
In the old days ('70's-80's) custom work was necessary to get desireable features such a high viz sights, extended thumb safeties and beaver tails to avoid hammer bite on 1911's.
There were no mass produced 1911's with such features.
Now days, many of these features are available from mass production sources.
Of course, custom work on a 1911 entailed significant expense and time delays ( sometimes years) but also included features such as custom checkering, fitting, reliability modifications, elegant triggers and great wood.
Now days, instead of being willing to wait for custom work, folks want their guns off the shelf to take home today. But they think they want a bunch of features nevertheless.
Often folks haven't the experience to know what features really make a difference.
As a result, some manufacturers have loaded features of dubious value (a ported slide? Give me a break. Glowing night sights for folks who won't learn to shoot, lasers and rails for hanging spotlights on the end, an external extractor (who knew this was a solution, since we didn't know if was a problem).
All this stuff adds to costs, with no benefit. But you can buy one by return mail. If you'll pay the freight.
I think many of the high priced 1911's are driven by a desire for more features, all delivered in 24 hours.
Often these guns, although overly expensive, sell well. They compair poorly to thoughtful custom work.
I'd rather start with a serviceable firearm and let my gunsmith add the features I want. This takes more time, but results in less money and a better pistol than the high priced, mass produced, items folks flock to today.
Compare a '70's Pachmyr 1911 with any top priced pistol available today. If you know anything about shooting a 1911, you'd rather have the Pach.
The best solution today is to start with a quality basic pistol with things like high vis sights, beaver tail safety and extended thumb safety, learn to shoot it, then work with a good gunsmith to add features that will help you.
Some basic pistols are great platforms, others aren't. The old Norinco was a great platform to build from, although the '70 series Colt is preferred. The RIA guns are functional, but very rough.
Pistols with manufacturing shortcuts ( like S&W 1911's with external extractors) are to be avoided. Fixing one of these is a much bigger job requiring factory help than the 2 minute job necessaryfor John Browning's invention.
All this goes to say that many of the high priced 1911's are overly expensive if you know what will work best for you. Custom work is expensive, but selective.
High priced, mass produced pistols include features few need but the price is baked in. The fact these things are available over the counter without reflection, creates sales.
If I buy a new 1911, I know precisely what I want in terms of custom work, and I do want some modifications. The higher priced offerings may offer some, but also include stuff I don't want.
If you're going to spend 3-5K, you should get precisely what you want.
There were no mass produced 1911's with such features.
Now days, many of these features are available from mass production sources.
Of course, custom work on a 1911 entailed significant expense and time delays ( sometimes years) but also included features such as custom checkering, fitting, reliability modifications, elegant triggers and great wood.
Now days, instead of being willing to wait for custom work, folks want their guns off the shelf to take home today. But they think they want a bunch of features nevertheless.
Often folks haven't the experience to know what features really make a difference.
As a result, some manufacturers have loaded features of dubious value (a ported slide? Give me a break. Glowing night sights for folks who won't learn to shoot, lasers and rails for hanging spotlights on the end, an external extractor (who knew this was a solution, since we didn't know if was a problem).
All this stuff adds to costs, with no benefit. But you can buy one by return mail. If you'll pay the freight.
I think many of the high priced 1911's are driven by a desire for more features, all delivered in 24 hours.
Often these guns, although overly expensive, sell well. They compair poorly to thoughtful custom work.
I'd rather start with a serviceable firearm and let my gunsmith add the features I want. This takes more time, but results in less money and a better pistol than the high priced, mass produced, items folks flock to today.
Compare a '70's Pachmyr 1911 with any top priced pistol available today. If you know anything about shooting a 1911, you'd rather have the Pach.
The best solution today is to start with a quality basic pistol with things like high vis sights, beaver tail safety and extended thumb safety, learn to shoot it, then work with a good gunsmith to add features that will help you.
Some basic pistols are great platforms, others aren't. The old Norinco was a great platform to build from, although the '70 series Colt is preferred. The RIA guns are functional, but very rough.
Pistols with manufacturing shortcuts ( like S&W 1911's with external extractors) are to be avoided. Fixing one of these is a much bigger job requiring factory help than the 2 minute job necessaryfor John Browning's invention.
All this goes to say that many of the high priced 1911's are overly expensive if you know what will work best for you. Custom work is expensive, but selective.
High priced, mass produced pistols include features few need but the price is baked in. The fact these things are available over the counter without reflection, creates sales.
If I buy a new 1911, I know precisely what I want in terms of custom work, and I do want some modifications. The higher priced offerings may offer some, but also include stuff I don't want.
If you're going to spend 3-5K, you should get precisely what you want.
They must sell plenty of them or they wouldn't continue to pay for those
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Practical or not, it's great to live in a country where such things are available.
I'm with RPG- learn to shoot the base model, then add what features will improve your shooting or it's "carry-ability." My ladyfriend purchased an AR this year, and after trying a few add-ons like a red-dot and other optics, it's back to stock. I'd rather her learn to shoot that way anyway.
I splurged ($750) for a used Colt Delta a few years back, but that's about as high as I've gone. The 9mm Colt Competition has been calling to me, but I ran into a nice used Hi-Power that is going to deplete the "gun fund" for me tomorrow. Maybe next time.
If I had the resources, I would by a Wilson Combat or something along those lines, but it would be mostly for pride of ownership. The guns I own shoot as well as I can make any gun shoot, so higher end guns have a limited return for me.
I'm with RPG- learn to shoot the base model, then add what features will improve your shooting or it's "carry-ability." My ladyfriend purchased an AR this year, and after trying a few add-ons like a red-dot and other optics, it's back to stock. I'd rather her learn to shoot that way anyway.
I splurged ($750) for a used Colt Delta a few years back, but that's about as high as I've gone. The 9mm Colt Competition has been calling to me, but I ran into a nice used Hi-Power that is going to deplete the "gun fund" for me tomorrow. Maybe next time.
If I had the resources, I would by a Wilson Combat or something along those lines, but it would be mostly for pride of ownership. The guns I own shoot as well as I can make any gun shoot, so higher end guns have a limited return for me.
vonn
US Veteran
This is a good post and a tough to prove one. I can produce improved results with rifles but not handguns so I think I am the limiting factor.
I think this mostly a First World issue. I have a Wilson XTAC (purchased used) which is their low-end gun. Like most of my other guns, it shoots better than me. It is more accurate than my Springfield RO Compact, and at twice the price, should be. Worth the money? YMMV, but for me, a qualified yes. I wouldn't pay full price for one, but a gently used one was worth it. American 1776 has it pegged, I think - the $1500-2000 guns are the sweet spot. Above that is largely hand-fitting, Deluxe grade materials and finishes (fossilized mastodon grips, while unique, really ain't gonna do much for me.)
CBus660R
Member
This. It doesn't matter what subject it is, the high end stuff is what get's the ink.
Certainly true for the automotive magazines I read. There are three articles about Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston Martin, Ligenfelter Corvette, or top of the line $65,000 pick-up trucks to every one about a Chevy Cruze. Doesn't bother me too much, as I like to look at the Hollywood Hotties and know I can't afford them either!
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