Gunsmith rant.....bad taste in my mouth.

I'd just like.....

Texas Star said:
Bear in mind that pre-MK III Colts go out of time much sooner than do Ruger and S&W revolvers.

MOST of the older Colts that I've handled were out of time, and it costs a lot to repair them. A famous gunsmith said that he'd repair a friend's Python, but warned that it might go out of time again with less than 1,000 more rounds through it.

I haven't noticed this so much in Colt SA guns, but haven't handled many and have shot just one. Ruger SA's, of course, hold up VERY well, as do their DA guns. I think you can shoot a Ruger SA with reasonable loads and it'd probably need a gunsmith at some time before the Sun burns out, but it'll take awhile...
Click to expand...

I'd just like it to be a shooter than just an antique heirloom gun. That's an antique heirloom gun that shoots. I wouldn't want to shoot it a lot and with soft loads at that. I shot it 30+ years ago and it's just a novelty being a .38 S&W. Kinda goes Bang! instead of BANG!

That's really lousy about a first class gun going out of time so easily. I especially didn't know that Pythons do the same thing. Well, I'm glad I didn't like them enough to buy one. Now Smiths are GREAT mechanically, but they have a hard time screwing barrels on straight. Colt is the superior performer in that aspect.:D

I will keep the Colt it as it was handed down but it bugs me having a gun that you can't use. I've got a very old double barrel 12 ga that will let both barrels off if you pull one trigger. And the barrel is swelled up so it would probably explode. :eek:
 
Last edited:
I'm sure Colt has a forum. Join it and ask for qualified gunsmiths. They're a dying breed, but I'm sure some are still out there.
 
Part Replacement

This gun probably needs a new cylinder advance, a simple job for any gunsmith or armorer. Considering a business' overhead costs, $50.00 plus the part itself would be fair and reasonable.

However, if the cylinder notches are worn out from years of use and abuse, you'll either need a new cylinder or need to retire the gun unless you're willing to manually lock it up for each shot.
 
Just a few things to mull over. First, before the Internet most of us didn't even know how to check for carry up and we only got concerned about timing if we saw shaved lead on the forcing cone. We also didn't hear about revolvers getting "blown up" unless it actually happened at the range we shot at. What I am saying here is that IMO the Internet has made many of us hyper critical about stuff that has always existed and only very rarely caused someone any harm.

The second thing to mull over is how old your revolver is. I know next to nothing about Colt revolvers but I do know that the only way to obtain a hand for S&W revolvers this old is by finding a "take off" from another revolver of the same vintage. I would expect that correcting the timing on your Colt may prove to be rather time consuming simply because it may take a year or two to find the correct part to fix it. I also suspect that, just like S&W, Colt won't be willing to do a repair on a revolver that is this old simply because they don't have the parts to do the work.

I would suggest that you do a bit of thinking on this and be realistic about what it may require to get the timing corrected on your Grandfathers Colt. Once you do that you may conclude that the wisest thing to do is to keep it as it is now and shoot it in single action while manually locking in the cylinder for each shot.
 
Colt revolvers can have their hand stretched. The Colt Forum has some good info on how to do it:

Homemade Smithing Tools

I would first try cleaning the gunk out the action first as already mentioned. If the cylinder was binding their might be dried lube in the action too.

Your local Smith is covering his inability to work on the gun by making a lot of noise. He would be much better off just telling people that he does not work on old Colts. I'd never step foot in his store again.
 
Well, he is definitely NOT a good businessman...inasmuch as he might be a good gunsmith, but I have to doubt that too. As a businessman he should know better than to talk to/treat a potential customer that way. All that said, it doesn't sound like it makes much difference...you wanted to name your price to have the gun fixed, $100 or less{???} and that wasn't happening either so you left. Whether or not you go back is up to you.
On the one hand we have a customer that wants his gun, and a valuable gun at that, repaired. You don't get to say how much it should cost though, you do have the right to say "That's too much."
On the other hand is a gunsmith that should have simply charged enough to make it worth his time or politely told you he could not help you and why.
If I took the time to get every old obsolete caliber revolver that is brought to me in a basket, missing pieces, needing to be refinished and me not knowing why it was ever disassembled in the first place I would never get anything done. At least once a month I have to try to say to someone in a nice way that this box of junk parts that was once a revolver are now not worth anyone wasting a second of their time or your money on, especially since you probably wont be able shoot it even if I get it back together again.
Now, all that said...your gun is a Colt, so I would have absolutely fixed the gun...but, you have already stated that you believe you are entitled to have this gun fixed for $100 or less....so you still wouldn't have the gun fixed, been mad at me too and still ranting and looking for some mystical "public defender" type gunsmith. If you do in fact find this dude that allows his customers to tell him what they want to spend please let the rest of us know!!!!!
 
This may be off base, but I seem to remember something about DA Colts locking up with the trigger pulled. The only Colts I own are a couple of Agents that don't have any problems. The older one was so stiff when I first got it that I could barely cycle the action. I flushed it out with brake cleaner and added some oil through the hammer. After a couple of treatments, it works like a Swiss watch. Go to the Colt forum. They will tell you how to fix the carry up if cleaning doesn't help.
 
msinc said:
Well, he is definitely NOT a good businessman...inasmuch as he might be a good gunsmith, but I have to doubt that too. As a businessman he should know better than to talk to/treat a potential customer that way. All that said, it doesn't sound like it makes much difference...you wanted to name your price to have the gun fixed, $100 or less{???} and that wasn't happening either so you left. Whether or not you go back is up to you.
On the one hand we have a customer that wants his gun, and a valuable gun at that, repaired. You don't get to say how much it should cost though, you do have the right to say "That's too much."
On the other hand is a gunsmith that should have simply charged enough to make it worth his time or politely told you he could not help you and why.
If I took the time to get every old obsolete caliber revolver that is brought to me in a basket, missing pieces, needing to be refinished and me not knowing why it was ever disassembled in the first place I would never get anything done. At least once a month I have to try to say to someone in a nice way that this box of junk parts that was once a revolver are now not worth anyone wasting a second of their time or your money on, especially since you probably wont be able shoot it even if I get it back together again.
Now, all that said...your gun is a Colt, so I would have absolutely fixed the gun...but, you have already stated that you believe you are entitled to have this gun fixed for $100 or less....so you still wouldn't have the gun fixed, been mad at me too and still ranting and looking for some mystical "public defender" type gunsmith. If you do in fact find this dude that allows his customers to tell him what they want to spend please let the rest of us know!!!!!
Click to expand...

He has every right to put a number on the cost of repairing a gun and decide whether or not it's too much. But that number also has to take into account what the repair actually is. If it's changing a part with little to no modification it shouldn't cost that much. If it takes a great deal of test fitting or modification then that's a different story. He feels that for what he wants to use the gun for he's willing to spend $100. Considering the gun and condition I don't think it's unreasonable. He isn't willing to spend a great deal of money for the gun to be used on occasion, and it isn't a collector gun or something rare, so not worth throwing money at it.
 
I appreciate it but......

msinc said:
Well, he is definitely NOT a good businessman...inasmuch as he might be a good gunsmith, but I have to doubt that too. As a businessman he should know better than to talk to/treat a potential customer that way. All that said, it doesn't sound like it makes much difference...you wanted to name your price to have the gun fixed, $100 or less{???} and that wasn't happening either so you left. Whether or not you go back is up to you.
On the one hand we have a customer that wants his gun, and a valuable gun at that, repaired. You don't get to say how much it should cost though, you do have the right to say "That's too much."
On the other hand is a gunsmith that should have simply charged enough to make it worth his time or politely told you he could not help you and why.
If I took the time to get every old obsolete caliber revolver that is brought to me in a basket, missing pieces, needing to be refinished and me not knowing why it was ever disassembled in the first place I would never get anything done. At least once a month I have to try to say to someone in a nice way that this box of junk parts that was once a revolver are now not worth anyone wasting a second of their time or your money on, especially since you probably wont be able shoot it even if I get it back together again.
Now, all that said...your gun is a Colt, so I would have absolutely fixed the gun...but, you have already stated that you believe you are entitled to have this gun fixed for $100 or less....so you still wouldn't have the gun fixed, been mad at me too and still ranting and looking for some mystical "public defender" type gunsmith. If you do in fact find this dude that allows his customers to tell him what they want to spend please let the rest of us know!!!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't tell him or demand what I wanted it fixed for. or feel that I had the right to get it fixed for that. I had a price in mind that I wouldn't mind paying (around $100 give or take $25) and his price was higher than that. It's not junker. It's in great shape with the nickel plating gone at the front of the cylinder but other wise fine. Like I said, mechanically it is not worn as I believe it was carried a lot and shot a little and is only a hair out of time. And I didn't just say that's too high and left, I told his counter men that I would think about it. They acted ok. And is shootable having shot it before. In fact, I could fire it DA or even in SA if I touch the cylinder and snap it into place.

The issue was NOT with price, but that he acted like a ******* and said the gun wasn't worth fixing. You're assuming that I was thinking and saying things that I didn't. If I want I'd meet his price and let him fix it, but I neither liked liked the way I was treated nor his comments about the gun, so I won't go back. He was an older guy, about my age but maybe he didn't know about old revolvers.
 
Last edited:
It really is the timing.....

federali said:
This gun probably needs a new cylinder advance, a simple job for any gunsmith or armorer. Considering a business' overhead costs, $50.00 plus the part itself would be fair and reasonable.

However, if the cylinder notches are worn out from years of use and abuse, you'll either need a new cylinder or need to retire the gun unless you're willing to manually lock it up for each shot.
Click to expand...

Like I said, the only thing wrong is the timing. I shot the gun before and it worked great and it's only had about 25 shots though it since then. That's I thought $100 a good ball park, maybe $125 since I'm not familiar with the work involved. I could have gone home and thought about paying his price and decided to have it fixed. But there were just too many negative factors. And like others have pointed out, he MAY not have been good at old Colts.
 
"He feels that for what he wants to use the gun for he's willing to spend $100."

I get it, as I said, his choice to say no. But...if he's not willing to spend what it takes than he still has a broken gun, it's just that simple. What I don't get is what is there to rant about??? "What he wants to use the gun for" is not the gunsmiths problem. I'd like to pay $2000 for a new Cadillac. For what I want to do with it that's all I am willing to spend. Guess what...I still don't have a Cadillac and this customer still don't have a fixed Colt.

"You're assuming that I was thinking and saying things that I didn't."

No sir, not assuming anything of the kind at all. My point is that if YOU limit the cost of a repair than YOU have no complaint when you don't get your gun fixed.
I would have fixed the gun. As I said, I believe he is not a very good businees man to treat his customers the way he treated you. It is absolutely a valuable revolver and based on the ones I have seen when they do what you are describing it is usually either a bunch of caked up junk in the frame or a weak or broken bolt spring. I also agree that it probably should not take that much money to fix it if that is all that is wrong. Just trying to see this from the other side of the fence as the guy who sometimes has to tell people in a nice way {or at least I try to in a nicer way than he did you} that I cant do things at a reduced rate. It costs what it costs, and no customer will accept a reduced refund if something goes wrong.
 
Last edited:
"a little leery about going back to this guy"

RUN away as fast as you can and dont look back.......the danger signs could not be more clear.....
 
clang444 said:
Colt revolvers can have their hand stretched. The Colt Forum has some good info on how to do it:

Homemade Smithing Tools

I would first try cleaning the gunk out the action first as already mentioned. If the cylinder was binding their might be dried lube in the action too.

Your local Smith is covering his inability to work on the gun by making a lot of noise. He would be much better off just telling people that he does not work on old Colts. I'd never step foot in his store again.
Click to expand...

My Python went out of time(as a lot of Colts do)...And it was simple fix......I removed the hand and laid it on the flat part of my vise.......Using a small ball peen hammer(the peen side) I tapped both sides of the hand(stretching it) and put in back in.......Which brought it back in time.
 
You went in with preconceived ideas about something you know nothing about. You don't think a guy in business hasn't seen your type before. He did exactly what he should have done. He gave you good advice and hoped you'd go away.
 
You're lucky. My first revolver, a Diamondback, given to me as a high school graduation present, was butchered by an "expert" Colt gunsmith. I doubt it will ever work properly again, at least not without a new sideplate.
 
If I apply for an FFL as a gun smith I am in business, that is probably what the person did that you asked to repair your Colt.

It looks to me as if you have late timing and a Colt's timing does not depend on the thickness of the hand but rather its length. Interestingly the hand of the Colt revolvers have a cut-out, something called a window and the hand can be stretched one time with a blunt chisel-like instrument to be working again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gfors
Need Gunsmith for 22/32 HFT
Replies
2
Views
122
gfors
gfors
Fishjager
Well one of my good friends comes through again
Replies
6
Views
380
bobsguns
bobsguns
Redacted_553
Is it a timing issue?
Replies
9
Views
450
SGT ROCK 11B
SGT ROCK 11B
chief38
Today was Vest Pocket Day at the Range
Replies
2
Views
185
glenncal1
G
Z
First time firing my 360 PD bad experience
6 7 8
Replies
146
Views
6K
DRankin
DRankin

Latest posts

Back
Top