The "Call" Afterwards

prplbkrr

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I have read about what you should do after a Self Defence shooting, and a lot of threads state to not say anything to LE.... UNTIL you get advice from a lawyer. (I kinda agree with this as the Maranda doesn't say anything about "helping" you, only that what you say can and will be used against you)

My question is how does one find a competent lawyer that is well versed in a justifiable self defence shooting? I have googled "self defence lawyers" in my area and it seems EVERYBODY with a web site is an expert. How do I filter out the posers?

The reason I ask is, well, we carry for the "just in case" scenario, and I would like to be as prepared as I can for the "after" headache.

Purple Bikerr
 
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An important thing to keep in mind even if the shooting is no-billed and no criminal action taken; whatever you said to the police after a shooting can be brought into court and used against you in a wrongful death civil suit. That is why I would want my attorney present when I talk to the cops after a shooting.
 
I have read about what you should do after a Self Defence shooting, and a lot of threads state to not say anything to LE.... UNTIL you get advice from a lawyer. (I kinda agree with this as the Maranda doesn't say anything about "helping" you, only that what you say can and will be used against you)

A police officer present at a CPL training class, also strongly advised to request two ambulances to the scene. One to tend to the person that was shot. So you appear politically correct to the media, and the anti-gun crowd. The second one for yourself to take you to the hospital, to be checked out, from the stress and anxiety (possible heart attack). That way, you get to spend the night in a hospital, rather than a jail cell, until things get sorted out.
 
This is a very good question. I used to belong to the local FOP and they provided legal counsel. I also know of a couple of very good defense attorneys in the area who might be called on if the need arose. One thing is for sure, be respectful to the responding officers but invoke your Miranda rights immediately.
 
Defending a righteous delibert action of self defense is a different matter than defending an actually guilty criminal.

Putting aside for the moment any unfortunate acrimony , the lawyers most experenced in defending justifiable use of force, are those who defend LE Ofc against improper use of force. Find out who is retained by the local FOP or equiv organization to represent their members.

If they are not available to be retained, ask around to discover lawyers who themselves were formerly street level LE Ofc.
 
Absolutely say nothing to the LEO on scene except your name and address. You invoke your Miranda rights and say nothing more. The cops saying they are only there to help you is a crock you don't want to fill.
Yeah finding an experienced atty. from a jail isn't a good idea. I have Texas Law Shield which costs me around $140 a year and one call to them has an experienced gun atty. to me asap. In the event of any confrontation using a gun TLS will be with me at no extra court legal representation fees. If you are involved in a shooting you better have $25 grand at your disposal or you are going to have trouble getting legal counsel. I paid my $140 membership so I don't need $25 grand.
Check Texas Law Shield as they are now in quite a few states now known as US Law Shield. Like they say, you don't want to be stranded in a storm with nobody to call.
 
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Yes, by all means keep quiet, but there's a right way and a wrong way. I recommend actually talking to the police, but only to say a little. Something like this: "I would like to help you with your investigation, but I'm a little upset at the moment. I would like to speak to a lawyer first and have an opportunity to calm down a little." You don't have to say that verbatim, but it is one way to say nothing without alienating yourself or causing strife.


The following represents the only things you should say to the 911 operator:

- I need an ambulance and the police (in that order);
- I shot a man (or woman) trying to hurt me;
- I am at _________;
- My name is _________;
- I am wearing _________;
- I can listen and will stay on the line but I cannot talk

Again, doesn't have to be word for word, but you want to start with asking for an ambulance. I'm not sure of the value of asking for two, but it doesn't sound like a bad idea.
 
I would suggest there are things you need to point out.

It's a crime scene, and it's about to be trampled by police, fire, EMTs, and bystanders. Cartridge casings will be kicked around, footprints will be mashed, and witnesses will walk away. Small, unnoticed bits of evidence are going to be critical, and need to be preserved. That means everything, no matter how small, because it's often the tiniest, most-overlooked scraps that poke holes in your attacker's story, or show that a bystander didn't see what he thought he saw.
 
Yes, if you want to guarantee a ride in the back of a police car with bracelets on, after an obvious self-defense shooting.. invoke your 5th Amendment Rights.. Sheesh..
 
People seem to be a little confused about what "Miranda" means. You do not have "Miranda Rights". "Miranda" is a "warning". A procedural issue. Also, you do not have a "right" to be given a "Miranda Warning". The Miranda Warning covers your 5th and 6th Amendment rights (and technically, 14th, probably). There is no need for police to advise you that you are under arrest and of what your 5th and 6th Amendment rights are, to allow a statement to be admissible, unless you are in custody AND they are asking questions of you, the answers to which they want to use against you in the future.

So when you shoot someone in a justified shooting, if you tell the responding officers NOTHING, as Badge130 points out, you will very likely be arrested and taken to the station and booked if there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed and you committed it. "Probable Cause" does NOT mean a "certainty" or "beyond a reasonable doubt". THEN you can call a lawyer, hours later.

So if you're at your house and the police get there and they find you there and a dead guy laying on the floor with half his head gone and you say nothing, invoking your 5th amendment right against self-incrimination, they are going to first secure you in handcuffs. They are then going to look for other suspects in your house to make sure it is safe. Then they're going to secure any weapons they find. Then they're going to get a search warrant and search EVERYTHING in your house looking for identification, guns, ammunition, anything to suggest a motive, identity of the dead guy, etc. In other words, if your wife has any toys in the nightstand or if you have any embarrassing items at all, they're going to find them and probably make jokes about them, cops being cops..... And it's all going to be on video most likely. God help you if you have any questionable stuff, like a little bit of weed or an unregistered pistol and they find it. You'll be charged with it after a perfectly justified shooting.

On the other hand, if you were involved in a shooting at a liquor store and you invoke your 5th amendment rights immediately and say NOTHING, and the store owner or any witnesses are still alive, they're going to tell the cops: "That guy came in behind me, then someone else came in and announced a holdup and pointed a gun at the clerk. That guy produced a gun from somewhere and shot the bad guy in the back of the head."

Now the police likely do not have probable cause to believe a crime had been committed as far as you shooting the guy, and that you committed it. They will likely detain you and try to determine your identity and then let you go from the scene. Or they MAY let you call your lawyer from the scene so he can tell you: "Just give the cops your name and they'll let you go. That will be $1200.00 please." If, for whatever reason you're STILL not talking weeks afterwards, they can always (in Michigan anyway), get an investigative subpoena from a judge and COMPEL you to talk to the prosecutor, under oath. Or if the bad guy isn't dead, they could get an order from a judge to hold you in custody as a "material witness" until your testimony is no longer needed.
 
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Folks, the question the OP asked was

My question is how does one find a competent lawyer that is well versed in a justifiable self defence shooting? I have googled "self defence lawyers" in my area and it seems EVERYBODY with a web site is an expert. How do I filter out the posers?

As for the legal advice everyone is giving, I'm sure it's of interest in terms of sitting around the potbellied stove, but I trust we're all wise enough to take internet legal advice with a block of salt. :cool:
 
After doing some poking around the 'net, and seeing how much an atty. could cost, (est. somewhere north of $25,000) I think I'll opt for CCW insurance.
 
After doing some poking around the 'net, and seeing how much an atty. could cost, (est. somewhere north of $25,000) I think I'll opt for CCW insurance.

Talk to your home owners insurance agent. I have a million dollar liability option, that was very inexpensive.
 
There are three possible ways to be released by the police after a justifiable shooting:
  • Questioned and released at the scene.
  • Detained, transported and released at the station.
  • Arrested, booked and released after the investigation.

I want the first scenario, don't you? Which process you get will largely depend on how you act with the police when they get there. You want the police to want to help you. You get that by being polite, not a 2A, 4A, 5A, 6A shouting loudmouth.
 
Talk to your home owners insurance agent. I have a million dollar liability option, that was very inexpensive.

The problem with that kind of insurance is.. it doesn't cover you if you are charged criminally.
 
There are three possible ways to be released by the police after a justifiable shooting:
  • Questioned and released at the scene.
  • Detained, transported and released at the station.
  • Arrested, booked and released after the investigation.

I want the first scenario, don't you? Which process you get will largely depend on how you act with the police when they get there. You want the police to want to help you. You get that by being polite, not a 2A, 4A, 5A, 6A shouting loudmouth.

The police can not "detain" you and transport you to the station without your consent. If you are not free to leave and are transported to another location, you are "under arrest" whether the officers tells you you are under arrest or not. Constructive arrest. Investigatory detentions do not include being transported to another location without consent.
 
As for the legal advice everyone is giving, I'm sure it's of interest in terms of sitting around the potbellied stove, but I trust we're all wise enough to take internet legal advice with a block of salt.

I've learned to take the advice of lawyers with the same block. I've seen many "general practice" lawyers take on a criminal case just to make a buck who should have been sued for malpractice considering the advice they gave their clients. They should have stuck with real estate deals and wills. On the other hand, I've seen some court-appointed criminal attorneys who were extremely good. If you want a good criminal attorney, I'd ask a detective from a large city department in the nearest circuit court where you live.
 
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