pittpa
Member
I experienced the failure of drive by wire in my Subaru Legacy. Total lack of response to the gas pedal. If it happened on the highway I might have been killed. A week later and $700 for a used part, I was driving again.
Are revolvers going the route of manual transmissions?
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Wee Hooker
Member
Maybe but IMHO, preference for either hints at you might not be new to the shooting/driving game.
Brian in Oregon
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In fact, I used to carry two S&W 2" Model 12's.
DS-10-SPEED
Member
I enjoy reading everyone's reason for using what they do but I think the analogy of comparing revolvers to a manual shift is backwards.
Isn't the purpose of an automatic transmission to simplify the end result?
With an automatic transmission:
- Start the car
- Put in drive
- Step on the throttle
Revolver:
(All of my DA revolvers work all the same)
- Load cylinder
- Close cylinder
- Shoot (bang)
=============================
Manual transmission:
- Push in clutch
- Start car
- Put in 1st gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 2nd gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 3rd gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 4th gear
- Step on the throttle
etc... (do it all again after stop)
Auto Pistol:
(depending on model, they are all different)
- Fill magazine
- Install magazine
- Operate slide
- Check safety
- (or is it the de-cocker?)
- (or is it the disassembly lever?)
- (or is it the magazine release?)
- (or is it the slide release?)
- Is the hammer back?
- Shoot (bang, click - clack, metal slide flopping back and forth)
- Thud (hot empty brass bouncing off things and going down your shirt)
- Bend over and pick up brass
Can you tell I'm a revolver guy?
Either way, use which ever one you like.
Isn't the purpose of an automatic transmission to simplify the end result?
With an automatic transmission:
- Start the car
- Put in drive
- Step on the throttle
Revolver:
(All of my DA revolvers work all the same)
- Load cylinder
- Close cylinder
- Shoot (bang)
=============================
Manual transmission:
- Push in clutch
- Start car
- Put in 1st gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 2nd gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 3rd gear
- Step on the throttle
- Push in clutch
- Put in 4th gear
- Step on the throttle
etc... (do it all again after stop)
Auto Pistol:
(depending on model, they are all different)
- Fill magazine
- Install magazine
- Operate slide
- Check safety
- (or is it the de-cocker?)
- (or is it the disassembly lever?)
- (or is it the magazine release?)
- (or is it the slide release?)
- Is the hammer back?
- Shoot (bang, click - clack, metal slide flopping back and forth)
- Thud (hot empty brass bouncing off things and going down your shirt)
- Bend over and pick up brass
Can you tell I'm a revolver guy?
Either way, use which ever one you like.
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5Wire
Member
Yup, exactly.
Stopsign32v
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I'm guessing here.....I want to say American since you have a Hurt shift knob. Focus? Possibly Mustang?
Invictus357
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Same reason why a Lamborghini will never have an automatic transmission.
pittpa
Member
Accord v6 coupe. Had one on my Legacy GT. Loved it. Mechanics get a kick out of it. Got it on EBay. Fun fun fun.
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Stopsign32v
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AGH! I KNEW those climate controls looked Honda. After all my wife drives a 2015 Accord. I just figured Hurst = domestic. Its too early...
Lamborghini and Ferrari don't sell manuals anymore.
Period.
Why Lamborghini Trashed the Manual Transmission >> AutoGuide.com News
OP
jmr986
Member
Darn!!! I was going to by a Huracan, but not with an auto!
snowman.45
Member
As an LEO for many years, I carried both; starting with revolvers and progressing through several different makes and models of semi-autos. As an old retired fart, I find I still carry both, but which I carry when is based on situation/location and instinct.
As a firearms instructor, I was tasked with teaching and maintaining department-wide proficiency with whatever was being issued or allowed at the time. I was a proponent of the switch to semi-autos due to capacity and the types of threats that were becoming more common at the time. I also saw that transitioning from revolvers to semi-autos required a lot of attention to developing muscle memory and general familiarity with the weapon's manual of arms. Simply put, revolvers were much easier to instruct safely; ADs or NDs were virtually non-existant. I also noted that officers became more willing to expend ammunition with the semi-autos. Hell, the capacity of the semi-autos made conservation of rounds less of an issue, even in the rare, prolonged shoot-outs.
My point is this; revolvers have a number of advantages for daily concealed carry. In my experience, they are not less effective than a semi-auto. The total available round count without reload is somewhat less in most cases, but as others have pointed out you are not very likely to face an entire platoon of ISIS in your daily travels.
I still carry semi-autos regularly, depending on my perceived needs for the day. However, I most commonly carry a j or k frame revolver with at least a couple of speed loaders without any concern for trigger pull or capacity. So, back to the original question, I don't think the revolver will be going anywhere for a long time. Autos may be more popular with some folks, but I think many of them are the younger and less experienced among us who gravitate towards the guns they see in the movies and their video games. I can't count the number of times I've seen some of the youngsters ask "What's that?" when seeing a revolver, or referring to them as "old west" or "old times" guns. That can sure make you feel old.
As a firearms instructor, I was tasked with teaching and maintaining department-wide proficiency with whatever was being issued or allowed at the time. I was a proponent of the switch to semi-autos due to capacity and the types of threats that were becoming more common at the time. I also saw that transitioning from revolvers to semi-autos required a lot of attention to developing muscle memory and general familiarity with the weapon's manual of arms. Simply put, revolvers were much easier to instruct safely; ADs or NDs were virtually non-existant. I also noted that officers became more willing to expend ammunition with the semi-autos. Hell, the capacity of the semi-autos made conservation of rounds less of an issue, even in the rare, prolonged shoot-outs.
My point is this; revolvers have a number of advantages for daily concealed carry. In my experience, they are not less effective than a semi-auto. The total available round count without reload is somewhat less in most cases, but as others have pointed out you are not very likely to face an entire platoon of ISIS in your daily travels.
I still carry semi-autos regularly, depending on my perceived needs for the day. However, I most commonly carry a j or k frame revolver with at least a couple of speed loaders without any concern for trigger pull or capacity. So, back to the original question, I don't think the revolver will be going anywhere for a long time. Autos may be more popular with some folks, but I think many of them are the younger and less experienced among us who gravitate towards the guns they see in the movies and their video games. I can't count the number of times I've seen some of the youngsters ask "What's that?" when seeing a revolver, or referring to them as "old west" or "old times" guns. That can sure make you feel old.
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hkcavalier
US Veteran
I haven't read all zillion of the previous posts, so it's probably been said by others, but...
If the main reason for the popularity of the revolver is an aging user base that is more familiar with them, then yeah, the revolver will largely go away.
The people working the counter at the gun store or suggesting rentals at the range can only do so much. When you can buy a dead reliable semi that holds 15-18 rounds of light kicking 9mm, has a 5-6lb trigger, and weighs ~30oz for less than $500, a six or seven shot steel revolver that's heavier, has a heavier trigger, and is more expensive will naturally be a tough sell to the newbie. This also works when you shrink to CCW sizes. People who don't know better buy on bullet point stats and the recommendation of the "expert" at the store, just ask any car or computer salesperson.
I've suggested revolvers to a couple people who lacked the hand strength to work the slide on an auto. As for safety, I don't believe in suggesting a less capable platform simply because it's safer for the beginner. Train people on the 4 rules and how to check a chamber!
Not saying those here that carry a revolver for personal protection have made a bad choice, not at all, but no one yet has convinced me to switch from a Glock 26 with 13 in the gun and 19 in my pocket at less weight than a K frame plus a strip or speedloader. I know how to clear malfs and keep my booger hook off the bang switch.
With all that said, I'm hunting for a J frame to appendix carry in shorts and a T shirt during the summer when even a subcompact Glock is too big. I carry revolvers in the woods for 4 legged protection so I "get it".
If the main reason for the popularity of the revolver is an aging user base that is more familiar with them, then yeah, the revolver will largely go away.
The people working the counter at the gun store or suggesting rentals at the range can only do so much. When you can buy a dead reliable semi that holds 15-18 rounds of light kicking 9mm, has a 5-6lb trigger, and weighs ~30oz for less than $500, a six or seven shot steel revolver that's heavier, has a heavier trigger, and is more expensive will naturally be a tough sell to the newbie. This also works when you shrink to CCW sizes. People who don't know better buy on bullet point stats and the recommendation of the "expert" at the store, just ask any car or computer salesperson.
I've suggested revolvers to a couple people who lacked the hand strength to work the slide on an auto. As for safety, I don't believe in suggesting a less capable platform simply because it's safer for the beginner. Train people on the 4 rules and how to check a chamber!
Not saying those here that carry a revolver for personal protection have made a bad choice, not at all, but no one yet has convinced me to switch from a Glock 26 with 13 in the gun and 19 in my pocket at less weight than a K frame plus a strip or speedloader. I know how to clear malfs and keep my booger hook off the bang switch.
With all that said, I'm hunting for a J frame to appendix carry in shorts and a T shirt during the summer when even a subcompact Glock is too big. I carry revolvers in the woods for 4 legged protection so I "get it".
I am a revolver guy for sure, but they are on their way out. Right or wrong, they are taking over the self defense market.
Go to any gun counter and take a look. The semis will always far out number the revolvers, because that is what they are selling.
The vast majority of new gun buyers are not hard core shooters, especially those looking for self protection.
The revolvers only real strong hold is on powerful rounds. Mostly those looking for one to hunt with or are getting involved in some type of longer range shooting sport.
It will be a while before they are completely disregarded though. Lot of history for the semis to over come. Even in the semi class the history of the 1911 has kept it in use by many.
Same goes for rifles. Lots of semis being sold, but many stick with bolts for power and accuracy.
Go to any gun counter and take a look. The semis will always far out number the revolvers, because that is what they are selling.
The vast majority of new gun buyers are not hard core shooters, especially those looking for self protection.
The revolvers only real strong hold is on powerful rounds. Mostly those looking for one to hunt with or are getting involved in some type of longer range shooting sport.
It will be a while before they are completely disregarded though. Lot of history for the semis to over come. Even in the semi class the history of the 1911 has kept it in use by many.
Same goes for rifles. Lots of semis being sold, but many stick with bolts for power and accuracy.
AveragEd
Member
steelslaver couldn't have summed up things any better! Revolvers just aren't in vogue these days and I have to admit that even though I am primarily a revolver guy, when you watch a rerun of shows like Law & Order and see the older detectives draw a Model 10 or 19, it almost looks odd because we're so used to seeing semi-autos in that scenario, both in real life and on the screen.
My carry gun, which I actually never felt the need to carry, was a two-tone S&W E-Series 1911Sc in a Miami Classic II shoulder rig. Our son has been drooling over the pair and I finally gave them to him. I'm now waiting for a Model 1 Dual Carry holster and a 2x2x2 cartridge pouch from Lobo Gun Leather for my 2-1/2" Model 66-4, so I guess I will look as old-school as those Law & Order detectives.
Ed
My carry gun, which I actually never felt the need to carry, was a two-tone S&W E-Series 1911Sc in a Miami Classic II shoulder rig. Our son has been drooling over the pair and I finally gave them to him. I'm now waiting for a Model 1 Dual Carry holster and a 2x2x2 cartridge pouch from Lobo Gun Leather for my 2-1/2" Model 66-4, so I guess I will look as old-school as those Law & Order detectives.
Ed
Brian in Oregon
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I wonder what the dynamics will be as ten round mag restrictions are enacted in more states, or may be at the federal level in the future? Back in the day, the difference in capacity was when comparing full size guns to each other. Such as a K-frame 357 to a single stack 9mm. The 9mm was often seen as retrograde due to less power. But those mags were generally 8 rounders, not 10. If anyone really wanted an auto in those days that did not take a back seat to a 357, they went with a 1911 in 45.
Along those lines, my first centerfire auto was a SIG P226 9mm. The mentality of the so-called "Wonder Nine" in those days was you always double tapped. I could not see the wisdom in doing that in lieu of shooting one .45 ACP. So I traded off the P226 for a P220 in 45 ACP, and the latter (with night sights) became my home defense gun for the next three decades.
Also interestingly, my Model 19 was still my outdoors gun, not the P220. Because it had more power (though two less rounds). The reason my 19 fell out of disfavor for home defense is that it was difficult to get night sights installed on revolvers in those days. It required machine work and only a couple of placed were qualified to do it.
I've been looking for a smaller, lighter piece than even my Model 12. I like the M&P 640 w/night sight and w/o lock, but frankly the J frame grip is too small. By the time a larger grip is added, might as well get a Model 12.
The Ruger LCR is a logical gun because it addresses lightness. cost, etc., but I'm a traditionalist when it comes to revolvers and the LCR is just ugly and has plastic on it.
Been looking at small 380s, but not really happy with any currently available. I don't like the trigger resets on some. Noticed when bringing up the Ruger that it "nosedives" in my hand, meaning the front sight is way below the rear sight. The Bodyguard did not do this and aligned perfectly.
I have carried a Walther PPK-L .22 LR when clothing dictated, but frankly it's a collector piece and should be babied. Been considering a stainless PPK, as the PPK fits me well.
So the choice looks like it is narrowing down between a M&P 640 or a PPK. It will probably boil down to whichever one shows up at a LGS first. Or maybe just get them both.
My shooting horizons are much broader than just self-defense. For targets or even 1/2 serious plinking where I want the maximum achievable accuracy, my semis can't compete with the revolvers' crisp SA triggers, the long sight radius or certain ergonomics. I don't get any kicks from blasting that target 14 times - I'd much rather go easy and make one nice ragged hole with just 3 or 4 rounds. I know thousands of better shooters do the same with their autos but I believe there is accuracy potential in quality wheel guns that is just in its own class. I also hunt with my model 629 - just not possible (or legal) with (most) semis.
I carry and train with my semis and I appreciate the necessity for SD but there is little pleasure in the shooting compared to my revolvers. My model 67 is simply the height of handgun perfection for me, and always an absolute joy to shoot. That's just where the fun is for a curmudgeon like me - wish I could express it better.
I have observed that this enthusiasm does not transfer well to others (an understatement). The couple of Glock buddies I've had to try that 67 just thought the trigger was insanely touchy and didn't care to try a second time. I know I won't change any minds here either but in the context of this thread, the concept of a different paradigm for non-defense seems key.
I carry and train with my semis and I appreciate the necessity for SD but there is little pleasure in the shooting compared to my revolvers. My model 67 is simply the height of handgun perfection for me, and always an absolute joy to shoot. That's just where the fun is for a curmudgeon like me - wish I could express it better.
I have observed that this enthusiasm does not transfer well to others (an understatement). The couple of Glock buddies I've had to try that 67 just thought the trigger was insanely touchy and didn't care to try a second time. I know I won't change any minds here either but in the context of this thread, the concept of a different paradigm for non-defense seems key.
Jingles
Member
Here in CA there is a resurgence in the popularity of revolvers, mostly due to the impending ban on magazines in excess of 10 rounds. Without the advantage of increased firepower in a semi-auto the reliability of revolvers is becoming popular again. 8-shot capacity doesn't hurt either.
petemacmahon
Member
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with J frames for beginners
Let me start out by saying that my constant companion is my S&W 442 Centennial Airweight J frame. If I'm carrying in the summer or with shorts it's the only choice. I've even carried it in the pocket of swim trunks. Only the winter time with it's additional layers gives me additional options.
Also, I've been shooting revolvers for upwards of 35 years, with the last 15 almost exclusively shooting double action only even while hunting with 44 mags. So, yeah, I can handle my little J frame. But let's be honest with ourselves, they are brutally hard for beginners to handle it two areas:
1) their triggers are the hardest to master
2) they can flat our hurt with good defensive ammo.
I would rather bang away all day with my 29-3 than shoot two cylinders of +P out of that 442 - and I'm an experienced 200 lb guy!
To the guy who's wife of 52 years told him she wants to carry - by all means take her out and show her a J frame and a K frame and (gasp) a Glock 19 or 43 or 42 (or a S&W M&P). Let her decide for herself. But I would not just foist a J frame on her.
To the fellow who got his daughter that 4 inch 38 special - that sounds very reasonable, especially because she is not going to have to "carry" it.
I too love the simplicity and reliability of the revolver, but they may not be for everyone seeking a simple self defense tool. Give them options and then make sure they practice, practice, practice.
I don't own many autos, but the ones I do own operate as closely to DA revolvers as possible, ie: Glocks for me at least now. I want to draw and fire with no extra safety to worry about. Dare I admit, I actually don't own a 1911 or any other SA auto any more...............please don't think less of me! I will say, that nothing belt carries better than a 1911, but they are just not for me because of my decision to standardize. And face it, it was either that or get rid of my revolvers and that AIN'T gonna happen any time soon!
Let me start out by saying that my constant companion is my S&W 442 Centennial Airweight J frame. If I'm carrying in the summer or with shorts it's the only choice. I've even carried it in the pocket of swim trunks. Only the winter time with it's additional layers gives me additional options.
Also, I've been shooting revolvers for upwards of 35 years, with the last 15 almost exclusively shooting double action only even while hunting with 44 mags. So, yeah, I can handle my little J frame. But let's be honest with ourselves, they are brutally hard for beginners to handle it two areas:
1) their triggers are the hardest to master
2) they can flat our hurt with good defensive ammo.
I would rather bang away all day with my 29-3 than shoot two cylinders of +P out of that 442 - and I'm an experienced 200 lb guy!
To the guy who's wife of 52 years told him she wants to carry - by all means take her out and show her a J frame and a K frame and (gasp) a Glock 19 or 43 or 42 (or a S&W M&P). Let her decide for herself. But I would not just foist a J frame on her.
To the fellow who got his daughter that 4 inch 38 special - that sounds very reasonable, especially because she is not going to have to "carry" it.
I too love the simplicity and reliability of the revolver, but they may not be for everyone seeking a simple self defense tool. Give them options and then make sure they practice, practice, practice.
I don't own many autos, but the ones I do own operate as closely to DA revolvers as possible, ie: Glocks for me at least now. I want to draw and fire with no extra safety to worry about. Dare I admit, I actually don't own a 1911 or any other SA auto any more...............please don't think less of me! I will say, that nothing belt carries better than a 1911, but they are just not for me because of my decision to standardize. And face it, it was either that or get rid of my revolvers and that AIN'T gonna happen any time soon!
I'll add:
-As you get older, the revolver is easier to use. It can be hard to grasp a slide when you have arthritis, and racking a slide takes two hands and arms with a certain level of strength.
-The revolver has tons of options for grips -- more than almost any pistol except the 1911. Trying different styles of grips is fun.
-Hand-loading .38 Spec with modest loads makes a Centennial a joy to shoot for long periods of time. Reloading 9mm or .45 with modest loads makes a pistol that won't cycle the slide.
-There is no striker-fired pistol that has a trigger as good as a reasonably average S&W revolver. This aids accuracy and to some extent control.
-There is no such thing as "Revolver Foot" but there is a thing called "Glock Foot."
-My revolvers look like works of art. My pistols look like tools.
Revolvers are here to stay and will be rediscovered by successive generations as they age and mature.
-As you get older, the revolver is easier to use. It can be hard to grasp a slide when you have arthritis, and racking a slide takes two hands and arms with a certain level of strength.
-The revolver has tons of options for grips -- more than almost any pistol except the 1911. Trying different styles of grips is fun.
-Hand-loading .38 Spec with modest loads makes a Centennial a joy to shoot for long periods of time. Reloading 9mm or .45 with modest loads makes a pistol that won't cycle the slide.
-There is no striker-fired pistol that has a trigger as good as a reasonably average S&W revolver. This aids accuracy and to some extent control.
-There is no such thing as "Revolver Foot" but there is a thing called "Glock Foot."
-My revolvers look like works of art. My pistols look like tools.
Revolvers are here to stay and will be rediscovered by successive generations as they age and mature.
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