Hey guys! My first post, so please forgive my forum ignorance: With all of this talk whether or not the m&p9 is SA or DA, is it at all possible to convert the gun to true DA. If so, what is the feasibility of doing so. Thanks in advance!
m&p 9mm double action only
- Thread starter Ray F
- Start date
SMMAssociates
Member
BTMAQ:
No....
It's really more or less an SA.... The DA view (IMHO) is because moving the sear moves the striker just a little bit before releasing it.
Essentially, otherwise, it's an SA. The striker is held back (cocked) when the slide goes forward with a chambered round most of the time. You can interfere with that by not getting a trigger reset, but that's another story.
Converting the gun to a true DA would require a significant redesign of the trigger mechanism - you'd have to draw back the striker some distance, and the existing setup really doesn't let the trigger mechanism near the striker. All it does is nudge the sear and move the drop safety plunger out of the way.
KelTec's .380 and 9mm (at least the ones I've played with) use a real hammer, and in that sense are DAO because the trigger mechanism draws the hammer back for you. The P3AT leaves the hammer down after firing, but there's a reset while the slide is going backwards, that moves the hammer back a quarter-inch or so. It doesn't stay fully back....
I've got a couple of Para LDA guns (1911's). The trigger does move the hammer back, like a DA design, but once a round has been chambered, the gun's really an SA that just happens to need to have it's hammer moved back to the "fire" position. About 2# of pressure is needed v.s. the much heavier pull for a DA revolver. Calling it "DA" is really just marketing. IMHO, they could have designed it without the external hammer, but chose to stick with more or less an ordinary 1911 slide. I'm not sure about the drop safety, but I think only one simple machining cut would make an LDA slide work on a standard SA frame. Can't easily go the other way, though - the LDA slide needs a bit more machine work.
Oh yes... Welcome Aboard!
Regards,
No....
It's really more or less an SA.... The DA view (IMHO) is because moving the sear moves the striker just a little bit before releasing it.
Essentially, otherwise, it's an SA. The striker is held back (cocked) when the slide goes forward with a chambered round most of the time. You can interfere with that by not getting a trigger reset, but that's another story.
Converting the gun to a true DA would require a significant redesign of the trigger mechanism - you'd have to draw back the striker some distance, and the existing setup really doesn't let the trigger mechanism near the striker. All it does is nudge the sear and move the drop safety plunger out of the way.
KelTec's .380 and 9mm (at least the ones I've played with) use a real hammer, and in that sense are DAO because the trigger mechanism draws the hammer back for you. The P3AT leaves the hammer down after firing, but there's a reset while the slide is going backwards, that moves the hammer back a quarter-inch or so. It doesn't stay fully back....
I've got a couple of Para LDA guns (1911's). The trigger does move the hammer back, like a DA design, but once a round has been chambered, the gun's really an SA that just happens to need to have it's hammer moved back to the "fire" position. About 2# of pressure is needed v.s. the much heavier pull for a DA revolver. Calling it "DA" is really just marketing. IMHO, they could have designed it without the external hammer, but chose to stick with more or less an ordinary 1911 slide. I'm not sure about the drop safety, but I think only one simple machining cut would make an LDA slide work on a standard SA frame. Can't easily go the other way, though - the LDA slide needs a bit more machine work.
Oh yes... Welcome Aboard!
Regards,
Rastoff
US Veteran
This is a misnomer. The fact that it has a striker instead of a firing pin has nothing to do with the type of action it is.
Not just technically, it is both a DA and a SA.
The M&P cannot be converted to DA. This will become clear in a second...
The type of pistol action relates ONLY to the trigger and what it does.
Single Action(SA)- The trigger only releases the hammer or striker.
Double Action(DA)- The trigger cocks AND releases the hammer or striker.
DA/SA- The first pull of the trigger is DA and then the hammer is cocked by the movement of the slide so, subsequent pulls will be SA.
A DA/SA pistol could be carried cocked, but that is not considered safe.
The only way to cock a M&P or Glock or similar striker fire pistols is to rack the slide to charge the chamber with a round. This makes the gun ready to fire in all respects (providing there's no thumb safety). There is no hammer to manually pull back like on a 1911 type pistol. With a double action semi-auto pistol pulling the trigger will fire the gun, hammer cocked or not - DA/SA. When the first round is fired the slide will come back, charging a round in the chamber & cocking the gun. From then on until a mag change after the last round is fired the trigger pull will be shorter & lighter. With a single action only like say a cowboy type revolver like the Peacemaker the only way you can fire the gun is to pull the hammer back for each shot.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll try...
The M&P line of semi-auto pistols are really self loading. When fired, the recoil force of the cartridge causes the slide to move backward. This action ejects the spent casing and loads another round into the chamber. It also resets the sear so the gun can be fired again.
If the slide doesn't move backward, when a misfire happens for example, the sear is not cocked and the trigger does nothing.
Thanks for the excellent reply, which I comprehend better than the talk about DA, SA, and DAO.
On another aspect of this handgun, one issue that comes up repeatedly from the reviews and videos I've seen is that it is a great gun with one concern: the reset on the trigger is hardly present. Should I be concerned with that or does one get used to it?
On another aspect of this handgun, one issue that comes up repeatedly from the reviews and videos I've seen is that it is a great gun with one concern: the reset on the trigger is hardly present. Should I be concerned with that or does one get used to it?
Rastoff
US Veteran
The reset is not great on the full size M&P 9mm. However, S&W has made an improvement to it and it's not bad. Where it used to be very quiet, it is now audible and tactile.
sa/da-does it really matter?
Some excellent definitions and explanations. Just bought 2 S&W M&P 9mm for me and wife and boys(13 & 14) and S&W M&P 22cal for daughter(12) She is young and the 9mm is a little much for her. The 9mm is great for the rest of us. Very happy with these purchases. Well done S&W. Looking forward to my next purchases very soon! As for the debate of sa/da, I have nothing to offer as it seems very well covered already. Points to note when using firearms 1-Treat all guns with safety and care in mind first, 2-Guns don't kill people-people kill people, 3-Don't be a dumb-***! Retain your ownership rights. As my one grandpa said to me at a young age..."Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." This was the precursor to my other Grandpas statement to me at pretty much the same young age..." It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, do what you must, but know that Heaven is watching, so be just and righteous in your actions." Gotta go, be well.
Some excellent definitions and explanations. Just bought 2 S&W M&P 9mm for me and wife and boys(13 & 14) and S&W M&P 22cal for daughter(12) She is young and the 9mm is a little much for her. The 9mm is great for the rest of us. Very happy with these purchases. Well done S&W. Looking forward to my next purchases very soon! As for the debate of sa/da, I have nothing to offer as it seems very well covered already. Points to note when using firearms 1-Treat all guns with safety and care in mind first, 2-Guns don't kill people-people kill people, 3-Don't be a dumb-***! Retain your ownership rights. As my one grandpa said to me at a young age..."Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." This was the precursor to my other Grandpas statement to me at pretty much the same young age..." It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, do what you must, but know that Heaven is watching, so be just and righteous in your actions." Gotta go, be well.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Welcome to the wonderful world of the S&W M&P bud8.
Just to piggy back on your safety rules, here are the 4 basic rules of gun safety:
1. Always treat every gun as though it were loaded. Even if you just unloaded it.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle you're not willing to destroy.
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you're pointed at the intended target.
4. Always be aware of your target and what's in line with it.
In order to harm anyone, two of these rules must be broken. Don't break any of them and no one will ever get hurt.
Just to piggy back on your safety rules, here are the 4 basic rules of gun safety:
1. Always treat every gun as though it were loaded. Even if you just unloaded it.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle you're not willing to destroy.
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you're pointed at the intended target.
4. Always be aware of your target and what's in line with it.
In order to harm anyone, two of these rules must be broken. Don't break any of them and no one will ever get hurt.
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