The SAINT VS ANY M&P 15
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shep854
Member
Roger Moore played 'The Saint' before Bond.Ain't that James Bond?????
Oh, and I was hoping for belt fed and a quick change barrel.....
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I haven't handled the Springfield rifle, but that logo looks like it was carved into the magwell. I don't like large logos like that; I even painted over the M&P logo on my Sport.
Given the wide range of choices, that logo is a deal-killer.
SavageMessiah
Member
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Here's your quick-change barrel. Wait no, more like quality control issue:
Springfield Armory SAINT AR-15 - YouTube
Springfield Armory SAINT AR-15 - YouTube
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I've got a few AR's and have owned multitudes over the years.
As long as you have a descent barrel, their all about the same. You can get into high dollar triggers, but I've never had a problem with the standard ones that come with LPK's.
As long as you have a descent barrel, their all about the same. You can get into high dollar triggers, but I've never had a problem with the standard ones that come with LPK's.
hdwhit
Member
You admit you know absolutely nothing about ARs or their manufacturers yet assert that the one company you know anything about has better customer service than companies you know nothing about.
As Scott Adam's Dilbert would say, "Ignorance is not a point of view".
hdwhit
Member
Well, the gun was designed by Eugene Stoner at Armalite. And the M-16 I carried while in the Army was made by General Motor's Hydra-Matic Division, not Colt. So, while I will agree that the rifle has performed well, in my case none of that was attributable to Colt.
Rastoff
US Veteran
But Colt has made many guns for the military. They have been used in real battles and worked fine. So, yeah, they have been through the mill and performed well.
Maddmax
US Veteran
And if you take an even closer look, you'll also find they are using a lot of BCM and DD's in some units.
Last time I checked there was still a long waiting list to get a Daniel Defense due to their contract demand for the military.As for the Saint. I wasn't overly impressed. I'm still happy with my original M&P Sport and T Modern Sporting Rifles that I've had for years with zero issues and they have held up very well.
Arik
Member
Nope. FN does supply a lot of weapons, just not a lot of ARs. Their main supply is M240 SAW and other heavy weapons. FN won the contract to supply 120,000 M4A1s. The majority of them will go to the Army.
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Bad_Andy
Member
For years I have sat on the sideline and not purchased an AR. I am happy with my pistols. Recently went out and shot some of my friend's AR's and I was impressed. That started my curiosity.
Here in California, they just passed the death sentence on AR style guns. We have until the end of December to buy one, (or we have to go "featureless"). So I started looking for my first AR.
My friends have Daniel Defense, they are nice, but not what I wanted to spend. I also have friends with Sport II's and they like them. On my interest list was the Sport II, Saint, and the Colt.
After looking at all 3, I ended up with the Saint for my first AR. It also comes with a very good lockable hard case (something that will be required here in CA for transport). This rifle just felt better in my hands than the other 2. I am sure all are good rifles, and I know I could have saved money building my own, but since this is probably the only AR I will have here in CA, I am happy with the way it is, and possible upgrades in the future. I am sure all three manufacturers will stand behind their product, so warranties should be about equal. The Saint was priced between the M&P and the Colt. Of course all here in CA have the bullet button and 10 round magazines.
For now, I am going to shoot with the Iron sights, and maybe next year, once I have a better feel for the rifle, and what I might be shooting, I will look into optics.
As far as the marketing, I think it was overdone, but had it not been, I don't think as many of us would be talking about it. It wasn't even on my radar, until I heard the "hype" before the announcement on this and other forums, so I guess it worked for them. Not all that different from how Star Wars teases us for a year about a new movie coming out, or Apple plans giant "launch" events to promote whatever I-thing they introduce.
.... and now if this 10 day waiting period would just hurry up so I can go shoot the thing.....
Here in California, they just passed the death sentence on AR style guns. We have until the end of December to buy one, (or we have to go "featureless"). So I started looking for my first AR.
My friends have Daniel Defense, they are nice, but not what I wanted to spend. I also have friends with Sport II's and they like them. On my interest list was the Sport II, Saint, and the Colt.
After looking at all 3, I ended up with the Saint for my first AR. It also comes with a very good lockable hard case (something that will be required here in CA for transport). This rifle just felt better in my hands than the other 2. I am sure all are good rifles, and I know I could have saved money building my own, but since this is probably the only AR I will have here in CA, I am happy with the way it is, and possible upgrades in the future. I am sure all three manufacturers will stand behind their product, so warranties should be about equal. The Saint was priced between the M&P and the Colt. Of course all here in CA have the bullet button and 10 round magazines.
For now, I am going to shoot with the Iron sights, and maybe next year, once I have a better feel for the rifle, and what I might be shooting, I will look into optics.
As far as the marketing, I think it was overdone, but had it not been, I don't think as many of us would be talking about it. It wasn't even on my radar, until I heard the "hype" before the announcement on this and other forums, so I guess it worked for them. Not all that different from how Star Wars teases us for a year about a new movie coming out, or Apple plans giant "launch" events to promote whatever I-thing they introduce.
.... and now if this 10 day waiting period would just hurry up so I can go shoot the thing.....
More like $1640 . . .
blkM&P-15T
Member
I looked at the SA Saint too- then I saw the S&W M&P-15T, compared the specs and price, and the choice was easy. The M&P-15T also has a 1:8 twist, "Armonite" coated barrel, mid length gas system, but has a 10" free float quad rail and MBUS sights- a better choice for optics IMO. The M&P-15T was only $50 more than the Saint- works for me.
As far as using brand-name furniture goes, I prefer Magpul- the wobbly M4 stock will get replaced with a CTR stock, and some XTM rail covers added.
Geno
Not mine, but a fellow M&P-15T owner's
As far as using brand-name furniture goes, I prefer Magpul- the wobbly M4 stock will get replaced with a CTR stock, and some XTM rail covers added.
Geno
Not mine, but a fellow M&P-15T owner's
The AR15s we shoot and buy today are descendants of the M-16 you are referring to IMHO. Colt has been the standard bearer for the modern M4 type rifle for over 20 years. They have proven themselves all over the world in all sorts of conditions.
This does not mean that there are not other great rifles on the market or that others do not have strong value but it is hard to argue against Colts rep in the world of modern AR15s.
The Saint seems like a decent option but the price will have to come down below $799 before it becomes a real competitor in the market. IMHO. Once they get to the $600-$650 range they will be more of a player IMHO. As cyphertext already pointed out there are some real differences in the Saints specs.
They have a decent list of features. You can argue their real world value vs say a Sport II but for many people these will make a difference.
-Mid length gas which IMHO is best for 16" ARs.
-BCM Stock and Grip
-BCM Keymod polymer handguard which looks interesting.
-1/8 twist Melonite coated barrel.
- BCM 7075 Alum Milspec tube. (Some don't care but if I have a choice I will take 7075 over 6061.)
-158 Steel Bolt, Shot Peened & Magnetic Particle Inspected bolt
-High Quality Rear Flip up sight.
-PNT trigger group which should be smoother by virtue of the coating if nothing else over a standard GI trigger.
Just replacing the stock, the grip and the handguard 3 of the things most often swapped out on a Sport II will cost you. $100 The Sport II is going for $600 so if you are getting the Saint for $700 for many people it is a push vs the Sport II.
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Ok I had a good look at a SAINT in my LGS today...and I have to say, against expectations, I was really impressed! BCG was excellently machined, proper staking of the gas key, appreciated the tight rattle free fit between the upper and the lower due to the set screw they put in the rear pocket, very nice metal flip up iron sight, and I liked the BCM furniture way more than I expected, especially the handgaurd nice and slim with a good texture to it. Mostly though it just felt right, good balance. Wouldn't feel the need to mod this one at all all it needs is a red dot and it's GTG. I'm gonna trade in one of my Sport IIs against it I think, need to sleep on it, but color me impressed.
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Hoov
Member
I ordered one for the store when they first became available. Meh, heavier than it should be. Features, meh. BCM furniture? BCM doesn't make a damn thing. Buying this, or any gun or item, because of brand loyalty is pretty dang silly. Every manufacturer has thrown a **** in the punch bowl. Colt, Glock, Springfield and yes, Smith all have those guns they wish they could take back. This is a decent gun. A little over priced for what you get in my opinion. If you like it, buy it.
It's true, I could get a Colt 6920 (actually I'd go 6720) for more or less the same money and that is the only thing that has me hesitating, but I really like the furniture on the Saint and to me it felt good in hand. The Colt would need at least a hand guard, grip and stock. That is of course personal preference re: the furniture.
???? Who cares if BCM "makes" the furniture or the trigger it is better than what comes on the Sport II which just about every Sport II seems to bin as soon as they buy it.
The grip the handguard and the trigger on this rifle are all better than what is on most other budget rifles. It is overpriced right now at $850 but I have already seen them as low as $750 I would guess the bottom end is $700.
At that price the better furniture no matter who "makes" it is a reasonably cost effect upgrade over other budget rifles for those who want a complete rifle. Personally I prefer building lowers and complete uppers but not everyone wants to do that.
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Jeeze guys, why does everybody compare absolutely everything to the sport? sports go for ~$5-6something depending on where you look and the saint goes for ~$3 more.. plus smith and wesson make more ars then just the sports.. not saying the sport is bad, but it's a basic "low end" budget rifle.
op, get whatever feels good to you.
colt boys, get back to singing "my little pony"
op, get whatever feels good to you.
colt boys, get back to singing "my little pony"
It is because it seems like 90% of the sales of S&W M&P rifles are Sport IIs. Look at the threads in this section. Almost all of them are about the Sport IIs.
If you walk into your avg LGS I bet they have a Sport II but no other S&W AR15.
Add to that so many people shop exclusively on price point that the Sport II always comes up because it is just about the cheapest mass produced AR15 by a major company that people recognize.
