IMR 4227 Question

[Mr_Flintstone]

I bought some IMR 4227 for reloading .30 carbine, but I found it useful for .357 magnum as well. A friend recently gave me a half-box of .38 special 200 grain super-police ammo, and I want to reload some more of it. I found data in the Lee 1st ed. manual, but I'm a little confused. Hodgdon told me that new IMR 4227 and H4227 load data should be essentially the same, but to start at the lower end and work up. The data I found for this round, though, lists H4227 at 7.9-8.5 gr, and IMR 4227 at 8.3-9.2 gr. The only other manual that I could find anything close in was the Lyman #44 manual that lists 7.0-9.5 gr for 195 grain. Either way you go, that's a pretty big range to work through. Would it be safe to assume that 8.3 grains of IMR 4227 would be a safe starting point since it's the minimum for IMR 4227 and below the max for H4227?

 

[Peak53]

Probably best to take the advice to start lower and work up. 4227 is a slow burner with a lot of boom. Every chamber and every gun and every bullet type will produce different pressures. IMHO you are starting too high.

 

[SLT223]

Use the current instructions from Hodgdon Reloading manual. Once upon a time H4227 and IMR4227 were different powders. Down loading 4227 typically doesnt work well. I would suggest using mag primers amd a tight crimp. It will need the help it can get in a low pressure load. 4227 work best north 30k psi in my experience.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Use the current instructions from Hodgdon Reloading manual. Once upon a time H4227 and IMR4227 were different powders. Down loading 4227 typically doesnt work well. I would suggest using mag primers amd a tight crimp. It will need the help it can get in a low pressure load. 4227 work best north 30k psi in my experience.

My Hodgdon manual doesn't have this particular load. If yours does, would you share it with me?

 

[hdwhit]

Mr. Flintstone wrote:
A friend recently gave me a half-box of .38 special 200 grain super-police ammo, and I want to reload some more of it.

You mention both .357 Magnum and .38 Special. Which are you planning to load since the pressure limits of the two cartridges are very different?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

You mention both .357 Magnum and .38 Special. Which are you planning to load since the pressure limits of the two cartridges are very different?

I currently load .30 carbine and .357 magnum with IMR 4227. I want to load the 200 grain .38 special with the same powder since I already have it on hand. Sorry if my grammar was confusing.

 

[SLT223]

You mention both .357 Magnum and .38 Special. Which are you planning to load since the pressure limits of the two cartridges are very different?

I do not, and have no experience with 200gr 38SPL. I would think a faster powder would be a better choice. Something in the Universal range would probably be optimal. I do have experience with IMR4227 and was merely trying to point out that you have IMR4227 specific data that points to a warmer starting point. If you already use this powder in .357, Im likely preaching to the quior. Back before Hodgdon owned the du pont powders, there was a difference between the two 4227's, but i dont think there is now. Regardless, you have IMR4227 and IMR4227 load data, so I wouldn't be concerned with the old H4227 starting point.

 

[bluetopper]

I'd load a max charge listed with 4227 for 38 Special and a 200gr bullet and not look back.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I do not, and have no experience with 200gr 38SPL. I would think a faster powder would be a better choice. Something in the Universal range would probably be optimal. I do have experience with IMR4227 and was merely trying to point out that you have IMR4227 specific data that points to a warmer starting point. If you already use this powder in .357, Im likely preaching to the quior. Back before Hodgdon owned the du pont powders, there was a difference between the two 4227's, but i dont think there is now. Regardless, you have IMR4227 and IMR4227 load data, so I wouldn't be concerned with the old H4227 starting point.

You're probably right about faster powder. I was just going with what I had on hand. I found in Bob Campbell's Load Development series over at loaddata.com that 3.0 grains of Titegroup (which I do have on hand) will push the load at nearly 650 fps out of a 2-inch barrel, and 710 fps out of a 3-inch barrel. It doesn't give min/max loads though, just the one; but it does give a few other powders/barrel lengths.

 

[SLT223]

You're probably right about faster powder. I was just going with what I had on hand. I found in Bob Campbell's Load Development series over at loaddata.com that 3.0 grains of Titegroup (which I do have on hand) will push the load at nearly 650 fps out of a 2-inch barrel, and 710 fps out of a 3-inch barrel. It doesn't give min/max loads though, just the one; but it does give a few other powders/barrel lengths.

This is obviously subjective, but 3.0 is warm for titegroup with a 148 hb wadcutter. Thats clearly because it sits far back in the case, increasing load density. If you have a hbwc slug maybe place it on one side of the .38 spl case and the 200gr slug on the other aligned at their respective canneluers, and eye the set back in the case? If they are equal setback the 3.0 gr for the heavier slug (25% heavier) will be higher pressure on what started as a warm charge.

By the way, where did you find the 200gr .358's slugs?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

This is obviously subjective, but 3.0 is warm for titegroup with a 148 hb wadcutter. Thats clearly because it sits far back in the case, increasing load density. If you have a hbwc slug maybe place it on one side of the .38 spl case and the 200gr slug on the other aligned at their respective canneluers, and eye the set back in the case? If they are equal setback the 3.0 gr for the heavier slug (25% heavier) will be higher pressure on what started as a warm charge.

By the way, where did you find the 200gr .358's slugs?

I haven't gotten them in yet, but they have them here in .358 and .360.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

200 grain .358" slugs are often listed as a bullet for 35 Remington! that is where I found mine from Rainier about 20 years ago! a box of 200 lasts a very long time!

Ivan