I don't know about this problem but I have seen one pierced primer cause serious problems. I saw a piece of brass get shoved up inside a firing pin channel destroying the firing pin and spring. If that piece had just stuck inside there it could have caused problems like the ones described with the trigger on the 22 Victory. I'm not at all familiar with the layout of that pistol but the problem I saw with the firing pin was on a semi-auto but it was a rifle. I would think that a piece of brass in the wrong place could definitely cause the type of problem described with the Victory.
S&W Quailty?
- Thread starter DaStray
- Start date
I don't know about this problem but I have seen one pierced primer cause serious problems. I saw a piece of brass get shoved up inside a firing pin channel destroying the firing pin and spring. If that piece had just stuck inside there it could have caused problems like the ones described with the trigger on the 22 Victory. I'm not at all familiar with the layout of that pistol but the problem I saw with the firing pin was on a semi-auto but it was a rifle. I would think that a piece of brass in the wrong place could definitely cause the type of problem described with the Victory.
muddocktor
Member
That might have taken a bit of time to make the post, but it's much more informative than your first post.
And yes, those are some really severe problems you encountered and I'm glad you posted these problems up, so that other folks can be aware of what you ran into.Thank you.
Anton Chigurh
Member
I've purchased 4 S&W firearms in the last year or so, a Victory, 640 Pro, 3" 63, and a 627 PC 2.62 incher.
The Victory and the 627 are, to me, flawless performers, with terrific triggers, finish, and construction. The 640 Pro is also great, just doesn't have quite the DA pull I was hoping for, although my most standards it is fine. I'm working on it. The 63 also has a so-so DA pull, but that isn't extremely important on the type of gun it is. It also has the Ruger-looking finish that seems to come with the SS rimfire revolver models. All in all, I feel pretty lucky, compared to some of you.
The Victory and the 627 are, to me, flawless performers, with terrific triggers, finish, and construction. The 640 Pro is also great, just doesn't have quite the DA pull I was hoping for, although my most standards it is fine. I'm working on it. The 63 also has a so-so DA pull, but that isn't extremely important on the type of gun it is. It also has the Ruger-looking finish that seems to come with the SS rimfire revolver models. All in all, I feel pretty lucky, compared to some of you.
NJM15
Member
S&W vs Ruger
I have 5 Smiths, only had problems with the 929,
The ejector rod kept coming loose causing the cylinder not to close. Finally I locktited it, then the cylinder release button kept coming loose , did the same. I have one Ruger a GP 100 problem free. I am not downing S&W products I am happy with the ones I have, but the overall quality of the Ruger seems to be better, fit and finish, closer tolerance in cylinder fit. Just my own two cents
I have 5 Smiths, only had problems with the 929,
The ejector rod kept coming loose causing the cylinder not to close. Finally I locktited it, then the cylinder release button kept coming loose , did the same. I have one Ruger a GP 100 problem free. I am not downing S&W products I am happy with the ones I have, but the overall quality of the Ruger seems to be better, fit and finish, closer tolerance in cylinder fit. Just my own two cents
That certainly isn't the case with my one and only Ruger. I know they make some fine firearms but they make some cheap stuff too. I have a LCP .380. FWIW the Smith M&P Bodyguard .38 Special isn't top of the line stuff either IMO. My daughter bought one because I suggested it. It works well enough for what it is but I generally expect more from S&W and most of the time I get it. It's just that the Bodyguard isn't in the same league as the S&W .357 revolvers my dad had hid everywhere you might sit down or the S&W's I own, which are truly great firearms IMO. My big problem with the Bodyguard is the accuracy or precision is you will. It just won't put the bullets on target like the classic S&W revolvers will. I know it's a pocket pistol designed for short range only but still - I have 2 Taurus pocket pistols that will shoot like Sig P210's. I shoot empty cartridges at 20 yards with one of them. My buddy set them up and asked to see what I could really do. He about lost his mind when I hit every one of them. With a Taurus - BTW that is one great pistol. Not one failure in 5000 rounds or so and insane accuracy and how they get so many rounds in such a small package is spooky. Must be some storage in a parallel universe or something. It's crazy how many rounds they get in that thing. It's a PT-145 for the record. .45 ACP - 10 + 1 of them in a gun you can hide with your hand and it shoots comfortable as an old shoe.
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Alk8944
US Veteran
With high pressure loads a single failed primer can cause the observed damage. Think about it, if it took multiple failed primers then the failure would have to occur in the same location on the primer multiple times. The chances of this happening are extremely low.
rburg
Member
rburg
Member
I'm sure glad Lee's asleep so he can't enforce his "no bashing" rule! 
When you buy a new gun, or new to you, it does make sense to really inspect the gun. OK, you can't inspect ammo except for the headstamp. And even with that, Remington hasn't always been bad. For a while in the distant past, it was what we call "top shelf" ammo. Even the 22s that are now known for their misfires. Its the same reason folks won't ever buy another Ferd, too.
And as others have stated, its not if they have a problem with one of their products, its how they fix it. And how they treat you along the way.
If you buy a used S&W, and then you discover a problem, someone else may have discovered it and decided to sell it. Not go through the hassle of returning, waiting, then returning it again. Its a time honored tradition to just sell off a problem gun. Its one of the things we see at gun shows all the time. Collectors won't even touch a gun with a rework mark, or at least unless its way cheap.
When you buy a new gun, or new to you, it does make sense to really inspect the gun. OK, you can't inspect ammo except for the headstamp. And even with that, Remington hasn't always been bad. For a while in the distant past, it was what we call "top shelf" ammo. Even the 22s that are now known for their misfires. Its the same reason folks won't ever buy another Ferd, too.
And as others have stated, its not if they have a problem with one of their products, its how they fix it. And how they treat you along the way.
If you buy a used S&W, and then you discover a problem, someone else may have discovered it and decided to sell it. Not go through the hassle of returning, waiting, then returning it again. Its a time honored tradition to just sell off a problem gun. Its one of the things we see at gun shows all the time. Collectors won't even touch a gun with a rework mark, or at least unless its way cheap.
bountyhunter
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Interesting the hand broke. Yes, SW has more QA problems but a part breakaga is relatively rare. I suspect its because it's a long thin piece and the MIM process is specifically unsuited for long thin pieces since any typre of grain defect will cause it to break.
bountyhunter
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That really is the difference. S+W now uses it's customers for their final QA. They used to have their people actually inspect the guns.
(1) Navigate to S-Wforum.com
(2) Create account
(3) Bash quality of brand based on gun you bought
Rinse and repeat, old news.
Almost as good as, "I have bought one Ruger, and I have bought one S&W. One had a problem and the other did not, therefore one is trash and the other is quality!"
GTFO, then.
(2) Create account
(3) Bash quality of brand based on gun you bought
Rinse and repeat, old news.
Almost as good as, "I have bought one Ruger, and I have bought one S&W. One had a problem and the other did not, therefore one is trash and the other is quality!"
GTFO, then.
Tom, last year Smith and Wesson did $657.62 million in sales. In 2012, that number was just $412 million. In 2004, they sold just $112 million. Let's presume that gun prices didn't quintuple between 2004 and 2016.
My question is this:
"Does the general public have such a poor understanding of how things work, that when a company increases its sales, they think that the presence of more complains means that quality is slipping? Are fractions, percentages, and proportions really that bloody hard to understand?"
Also, hasn't S&W been offering a lifetime warranty since...well hell, as long as I've been alive?
I'd also point out that I've seen so many guns return for such absurd nonsense that, with just 1500 employees total, it's no wonder that warranty repair is a 6-week turnaround.
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Not trying to make excuses for S&W or any other firearm manufacturer for that matter, but I do know that the labor pool for skilled machinists (among many other professions) is in a sad, sad, crippling state of decline & shortage. Know this from acquaintences who worked for Ruger, who work for Sig here in NH, and although I don't 'know' anyone on the production floor at S&W, I'm quite sure it's the same there. I also think this has something to do with the move to MIM parts (which I honestly am not averse to) being that if you can't find or train or hold on to enough HIGHLY SKILLED machinists CAPABLE of mass-producing the 'difficult' parts like hammers and triggers to tight specs, well then by all means man, incorporate the technology that can make-it-so. It's a conundrum. I just want my dollars to get me a high quality product.
Good point. I'm seeing a lot of "send it back", for what I think are simple solutions. It seems that many owners have no mechanical abilities at all.
muddocktor
Member
Yeah, I'm with you on that. When I got my 627 Pro and when we got my wife's 60-15, both had little issues that I corrected without having to send them back to S&W. With the 60-15, the trigger was a little rough in double action and when I cracked the sideplate open I found that the MIM rebound slide had a slight edge ridge that was cutting into the frame slightly. I stoned that side and it was good to go. With my 627 Pro I was having light strikes on double action. I just changed out the mainspring with a full power Wolff mainspring I had lying around and it was good to go. I don't know if the stock spring was arched wrong or what, but since I had a spare spring it didn't matter.
Rick_A
Member
I've had eight S&W revolvers over nineteen years. Still have six purchased in the last few years from 2012 to present.
A 2009 production 22-4 purchased in 2013 had a proud side plate. It was repaired and refinished with a two week turnaround.
A 2015 642 purchased in 2015 has a bit of a hitch in the trigger before it breaks. In slow fire it's noticeable. In rapid fire it's not. It also has an odd tool mark on the inside of the top strap. I wasn't able to hand pick that one, but I can live with it. The finish on the backstrap after a couple years of ankle carry has seen better days.
A ratty, well worn ex-police 10-8 is the best shooting fixed sight gun we have. A red dot equipped, run of the mill 67-5 is the most accurate handgun in the house, period. A 442-1 which is the oldest of the current bunch has had the most use, both in carry and shooting...with a steady diet of +p is still going plenty strong.
Some of you guys have some terrible luck.
A 2009 production 22-4 purchased in 2013 had a proud side plate. It was repaired and refinished with a two week turnaround.
A 2015 642 purchased in 2015 has a bit of a hitch in the trigger before it breaks. In slow fire it's noticeable. In rapid fire it's not. It also has an odd tool mark on the inside of the top strap. I wasn't able to hand pick that one, but I can live with it. The finish on the backstrap after a couple years of ankle carry has seen better days.
A ratty, well worn ex-police 10-8 is the best shooting fixed sight gun we have. A red dot equipped, run of the mill 67-5 is the most accurate handgun in the house, period. A 442-1 which is the oldest of the current bunch has had the most use, both in carry and shooting...with a steady diet of +p is still going plenty strong.
Some of you guys have some terrible luck.
Edmo
US Veteran
When it comes to using this forum to say anything negative about S&W's current quality, the lock, or provide praise for a certain polymer brand of firearms I have learned to abide by the "Thumper rule"...
Edmo
Thumper - If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all - YouTube
Edmo
Thumper - If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all - YouTube
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Fact is, things change.....
It used to be easy. You could say, "Craftsman tools are very good" and you'd be right. That day is gone, The road that our manufacturing infrastructure has been on has necessitated some changes in order not to just keep up in business but to stay alive. I hope S&W keeps making smart decisions to stay afloat. Some of these decisions are probably very hard to make.
It's a simple fact that the demand for plastic semis have gone through the roof while demand for revolvers, though still there, has decreased a LOT, at least in comparison to more modern guns.
I just hope that I always have some firearms that give me visceral satisfaction just by picking it up, holding it and looking at it. And then live up to it's name on the range.
It used to be easy. You could say, "Craftsman tools are very good" and you'd be right. That day is gone, The road that our manufacturing infrastructure has been on has necessitated some changes in order not to just keep up in business but to stay alive. I hope S&W keeps making smart decisions to stay afloat. Some of these decisions are probably very hard to make.
It's a simple fact that the demand for plastic semis have gone through the roof while demand for revolvers, though still there, has decreased a LOT, at least in comparison to more modern guns.
I just hope that I always have some firearms that give me visceral satisfaction just by picking it up, holding it and looking at it. And then live up to it's name on the range.
jimbo728
Member
I tend to lean in the direction that pierced primers caused the described problems. In higher pressure cartridges (rifle, 30-06) this damage is even worse when a primer or 2 was pierced.
Smith may not tell you what the cause was but you will get a quality repair.
Jim
Robenstein
Member
Well I bought two NIB S&W's in the past three months. A 638 and a 67. Both had issues right from the box before I even put a round through them. The 638 was an easy fix, it was bound up tight due to an ejector rod not being screwed in all the way. The 67 had inconsistent timing from chamber to chamber with the two last ones not locking up before the hammer dropped in DA mode or locked back on SA mode. It has been at S&W for a month so far.
Seems there is not the best quality control there at the moment. Really bums me out to see it that way.
Seems there is not the best quality control there at the moment. Really bums me out to see it that way.
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