Brill Holster

[boykinlp]

Can someone please explain to me why this holster sold for so much ($2070)!

Brill Austin, Texas Holster for a Colt Single-Other Firearms Auction Lot-223

 

[lawandorder]

Bidding wars sometimes result in unrealistic prices.

And then it's for a Colt SAA and you know how those Colt guys are.

 

[rednichols]

If we expect that the buyer could recoup his purchase price, then, no. He will have to hold it for an extended period to do that, and then that calculation says the money should have been invested elsewhere (I believe that's called 'opportunity cost': noun ECONOMICS the loss of other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.)

 

[boykinlp]

I thought there must be something special about it!

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

That's insane,Someone had too much Scotch at the Big Auction.

 

[rednichols]

From what's been learnt over the past year about the history of the Brill holster, it would seem then that this particular Brill was made by N.J. Rabensburg for Brill (the rounded corners of the basketweave template). N.J. appears to have been called back to Austin in 1932 perhaps for this express purpose; and he set up shop literally next door to where Brill had been since 1929. N.J. had been mayor of Llano TX for a year and wouldn't have left there on a whim. He spent the rest of his life in Austin, too, whereas he had moved around a LOT prior. The Brills (August and Arno) were building Brillville on Lake Austin to the NW of Austin itself and after WWII intervened it was opened to the public in 1948. N.J. retired in 1955 (began collecting SS and told at least one interviewer in the 1950s that he was retired) and died 1961. So: between 1932 and 1955, whereas I would expect that an EARLY Brill would have more value (so 1912 to 1929) (appear to have the square corners for the basket perimeter) (not decisive) as being made by the Brills themselves. The design did not exist prior to 1907 when N.J. created it with August at W.T. Wroe in Austin for Capt. Hughes. There is a Brill reputed to have belonged to Butch Cassidy but the design did not exist, nor did the A.W. Brill company, during Butch's lifetime (conspiracy theorists aside).

 

[boykinlp]

From what's been learnt over the past year about the history of the Brill holster, it would seem then that this particular Brill was made by N.J. Rabensburg for Brill (the rounded corners of the basketweave template). N.J. appears to have been called back to Austin in 1932 perhaps for this express purpose. So: between 1932 and 1955, whereas I would expect that an EARLY Brill would have more value (so 1912 to 1929) (appear to have the square corners for the basket perimeter) (not decisive) as being made by the Brills themselves.

Red,
Now I am confused. You mention rounded corners and square corners. Do you happen to have a picture of holsters to show the difference. I looked at the Specific Maker - AW Brill thread, but unfortunately almost all of the pictures are gone thanks to photobucket! So, I could not find any to compare. Thanks.
Larry

 

[DevilDog72]

Red...you are truly a gifted researcher. Thanks.

It still ain't worth that much..... it is more than my house payment.

 

[rednichols]

Red,
Now I am confused. You mention rounded corners and square corners. Do you happen to have a picture of holsters to show the difference. I looked at the Specific Maker - AW Brill thread, but unfortunately almost all of the pictures are gone thanks to photobucket! So, I could not find any to compare. Thanks.
Larry

Sure, did these up for Phil once upon a time (some pics belong to forum members):

which is a known Rabensburg 1955

marked Brill with the same round corners as the Rabensburg

marked Brill with the squared corners.

The theory that the builders are different is my own, based on being a maker myself. And we do know the periods that N.J. Rabensburg was in Texas and when he wasn't (census, newspaper archives, s/s records, etc.). The backside of the two round-cornered holsters are identical as to the odd stitching at the left side, the right side, and at the muzzle; impossible to be a coincidence (and all other clones of the Brill are different in those three places and the lining attachment, and the very weird and seemingly arbitrary way the welts are layered near the muzzle).

The holster attributed to Ranger L.E. Trimble (hey, learnt recently that his names are French in origin not Spanish) has the square corners. Sheriff Wilson tells me that Trimble, despite the legend, did not ever speak of creating any holster including the Brill (of which several were in Lee's estate).

 

[fat tom]

It still ain't worth that much..... it is more than my house payment.

House PAYMENT? That's about 15% of what I paid for my first HOUSE!
f.t.

 

[boykinlp]

As I have said before, I collect mostly floral carved "Big Three" holsters. But, I purchased my first Brill Holster a few days ago. When I was looking I came across the holster that started this thread. That made me think I would not be able to afford one. The one I got was kinda rough, but the Blackrock worked it's magic. I think it also was modified by a previous owner. The safety strap was probably added later (I don't think Brill would cover their Maker's Mark with part of the safety strap), it was probably dyed black later (the back of the holster is brown), and the belt loop on the back of the holster was sewed up so it would fit a narrower belt (1 1/2 inch instead of a 3 inch). Other than that it looks great! It has a pretty thick welt, but I think that is common on a Brill holster. I did not see a model number on it anywhere, so I don't know if Brill holsters have them. If they don't, I sure wonder how you ordered one back in the day. I got it for a good price. It fits a medium frame revolver with a 4 inch barrel. I thought I had gotten all the verdigris off the male end of the snap, but the close up pics say I didn't. Needs more work.

I am hoping Red sees this because from earlier posts in this thread, it seems this holster has rounded corners instead of square corners.

Here are a few pictures (from my computer instead of that evil PB) so they are the thumbnail type:

 

[boykinlp]

Here is a close-up picture of the extra sewing that was done. It is the black thread and makes the belt loop accept a narrower belt.

 

[rednichols]

As I have said before, I collect mostly floral carved "Big Three" holsters. But, I purchased my first Brill Holster a few days ago. When I was looking I came across the holster that started this thread. That made me think I would not be able to afford one. The one I got was kinda rough, but the Blackrock worked it's magic. I think it also was modified by a previous owner. The safety strap was probably added later (I don't think Brill would cover their Maker's Mark with part of the safety strap), it was probably dyed black later (the back of the holster is brown), and the belt loop on the back of the holster was sewed up so it would fit a narrower belt (1 1/2 inch instead of a 3 inch). Other than that it looks great! It has a pretty thick welt, but I think that is common on a Brill holster. I did not see a model number on it anywhere, so I don't know if Brill holsters have them. If they don't, I sure wonder how you ordered one back in the day. I got it for a good price. It fits a medium frame revolver with a 4 inch barrel. I thought I had gotten all the verdigris off the male end of the snap, but the close up pics say I didn't. Needs more work.

I am hoping Red sees this because from earlier posts in this thread, it seems this holster has rounded corners instead of square corners.

Here are a few pictures (from my computer instead of that evil PB) so they are the thumbnail type:

You posed lots of insightful questions on this one. Indeed the odd backside sewing is typical of Rabensburg's. I'll see if I can find the pic I have of the odd way the welts have been laminated near the muzzle, in these holsters. Agreed that the strap was added; though it could have been period because the snap type we call today a 'glove' fastener'; common enough then but one won't find them on holsters today; Heiser switched from that type to the modern 'dot' style at some point though I don't know the timing of that.

There was only one Brill style holster. The variants we see were for the different pistol styles; so the auto had the trigger guard enclosed, and the short barrelled revolvers did too and had safety straps, and the 4" and up revolvers had the guard resting on the welt and normally without a strap. Basket appears to have been standard, floral an option, and I've not ever seen a plain one (doesn't mean they don't exist).

The first image is a pair of Rabensburg's; we know this because N.J. made them for Stan Nelson while telling Stan and his brother the style's history. The second image is the back of a Brill auto (notice it is a black holster with a brown back; this was done as recently as the Hoyt forward draws of the 60s because of dye rubbing off on the tan uniform trousers); and the last image is the odd layering of the welts on a Brill (look and you will see) which I hadn't ever noticed until a friend pointed it out to me.

 

[boykinlp]

You posed lots of insightful questions on this one. Indeed the odd backside sewing is typical of Rabensburg's. I'll see if I can find the pic I have of the odd way the welts have been laminated near the muzzle, in these holsters. Agreed that the strap was added; though it could have been period because the snap type we call today a 'glove' fastener'; common enough then but one won't find them on holsters today; Heiser switched from that type to the modern 'dot' style at some point though I don't know the timing of that.

There was only one Brill style holster. The variants we see were for the different pistol styles; so the auto had the trigger guard enclosed, and the short barrelled revolvers did too and had safety straps, and the 4" and up revolvers had the guard resting on the welt and normally without a strap. Basket appears to have been standard, floral an option, and I've not ever seen a plain one (doesn't mean they don't exist).

The first image is a pair of Rabensburg's; we know this because N.J. made them for Stan Nelson while telling Stan and his brother the style's history. The second image is the back of a Brill auto (notice it is a black holster with a brown back; this was done as recently as the Hoyt forward draws of the 60s because of dye rubbing off on the tan uniform trousers); and the last image is the odd layering of the welts on a Brill (look and you will see) which I hadn't ever noticed until a friend pointed it out to me.

As usual, thanks for all the interesting information. When I saw the seller's pictures of this holster, I thought it might have the Rabensburg sewing style. Nice to know about the snap type and that it is probably period correct.

Since Brill only made one style holster, I guess when you ordered one, you would just tell them what gun you wanted it to fit and barrel length, and they would make it for you. I think most of the Brill holsters that I have seen are the basketweave pattern. If anyone has a floral carved or plain one, please post a picture of it! I would love to see some!

I do think my holster was dyed black (even though they left the back of the holster brown) after it left Brill, since the back looks kinda crude. I looked at the welt on my holster and it has the same odd layering as the holster you pictured.

After Red's comments, I am liking this holster more and more!

It still really stinks that most of the awesome pictures on this "Gun Leather" part of the forum are no longer viewable! They used to be great to look at and to learn and gather information from! I wish I could say how I really feel about photobucket!!

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

House PAYMENT? That's about 15% of what I paid for my first HOUSE!
f.t.

f.t., I'm bettin this ole boy that bought that holster ain't got a house payment,

 

[rednichols]

As usual, thanks for all the interesting information. When I saw the seller's pictures of this holster, I thought it might have the Rabensburg sewing style. Nice to know about the snap type and that it is probably period correct.

Since Brill only made one style holster, I guess when you ordered one, you would just tell them what gun you wanted it to fit and barrel length, and they would make it for you. I think most of the Brill holsters that I have seen are the basketweave pattern. If anyone has a floral carved or plain one, please post a picture of it! I would love to see some!

I do think my holster was dyed black (even though they left the back of the holster brown) after it left Brill, since the back looks kinda crude. I looked at the welt on my holster and it has the same odd layering as the holster you pictured.

After Red's comments, I am liking this holster more and more!

It still really stinks that most of the awesome pictures on this "Gun Leather" part of the forum are no longer viewable! They used to be great to look at to and to learn and gather information from! I wish I could say how I really feel about photobucket!!

I did see that your welt had the unique layering. Here are some floral pics (some belong to other forum members):

 

[boykinlp]

I did see that your welt had the unique layering. Here are some floral pics (some belong to other forum members):

Those 2 are awesome! Now I do remember seeing the first one you posted. I believe it belongs to John. I'll have to keep my eye out for a reasonably priced floral carved model, if there is such a holster. Anybody else have some floral carved pictures?

 

[boykinlp]

I have different excel spread sheets for my guns, grips, gun leather etc. On all the sheets, I have descriptions and an area where I place the amount paid, as well as, an amount worth. I know some people are of the mind that it is worth what you paid, but if I get a deal, I think it may be worth more than I paid.

I am having a hard time figuring out what this Brill holster (from post #11) is really worth. Any insight from you folks would be greatly appreciated!

 

[crazyphil]

I did see that your welt had the unique layering. Here are some floral pics (some belong to other forum members):

View attachment 293517

View attachment 293518

This thread is too good to let it fade off into the sunset.
The first floral carved Brill holster that I can recall was a photo
of the so called Butch Cassidy holster. I just Googled Butch
Cassidy auction holster photo and a bunch of them came up.
James D. Julia was the auctioneer. As you (Red) pointed out
it was impossible for Butch Cassidy to own a Brill holster. The
dates don't work out.

 

[Watchdog]

Brill holsters, like those by Myres, have that sort of Texas mystique about them. I think that contributes to their value, even though that monetary value may be unrealistic except to collectors. I understand Texas Rangers liked Brill holsters.

But this one that just sold for over $2K...well, I don't know. It'd have to have belonged to someone famous for it to interest me.

Of course, the buyer may have wanted it to round out a particular look for a display of his vintage Colt, who knows. As someone else mentions, you never know what those Colt fellas are gonna get up to next.