New Model No.3 Target - Need Front Sight

[dkay62]

My friend has a interesting New Model No.3 Target in .32-44 caliber. The front sight is usable but buggered. Otherwise, the gun looks original and honest. I was wondering if anyone knew a source for a replacement or reproduction front sight? It is more of the square target type and not the usual round version. I feel compelled to make him an offer to own this gun. Would $500 be a fair price for it's present condition?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I don't know where you might find a replacement blade. Jack First gun may be able to make a replica. There are several members who collect these guns and know a lot about them including where to scrounge parts. Perhaps they'll weigh in.

As to a "fair" price, here is what the SCSW, 4th Edition says about value:

AsNew Exc+ ..Exc ...Fine .VG ..Good Fair Poor
n/a* ...5,500 4,000 3000 2000 1100 900 600

(Page 120).

I'd say you're a might low.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Doug, this is a good spot to post regarding the front sight. Lot's of knowledge to be had here.

I would not hesitate to grab that one for $500, in fact grab it now and worry about the sight later! As long as the mechanical function is what it should be you will be doing well at that price.

 

[rct269]

George Dye (at David Carroll's) may be able to help with the sight blade. (Google David Carroll Guns.) Same goes for Don Mundell (Club Gun Fan on this forum). Several different front sights were available/used on this gun, and any would suffice (assuming you have a U notch rear blade). The so-called Paine Black Bead was the standard sight (although the Low Paine likely would have been used on the 32-44). If you're a stickler for originality, the top of the blade should be .220" above the rib (+/-).

Ralph Tremaine

I can furnish illustrations of any of/most all these sights.

 

[mrcvs]

At $500, you would be getting a tremendous bargain, especially since this is a target model.

Attached is a photograph of a front sight blade I bought a few years back that I intend to install on a Target New Model No 3 that I own. Long story, but mine traded hands under a streetlamp in December, and I did not even realize I was purchasing a Target Model. The rear blade, which is delicate, had snapped off, and, to compensate, the front sight was filed.

 

[rct269]

The sight shown above (Post #5) is a Low Paine----your sight.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Jingles]

A half-day in a workshop with some flat bar stock and a couple of good files you could replicate one. I've got one I'll sell you but it comes with a gun attached.

 

[model3sw]

My friend has a interesting New Model No.3 Target in .32-44 caliber. The front sight is usable but buggered. Otherwise, the gun looks original and honest. I was wondering if anyone knew a source for a replacement or reproduction front sight? It is more of the square target type and not the usual round version. I feel compelled to make him an offer to own this gun. Would $500 be a fair price for it's present condition?

Contact me via Email. I have 2 front sights in stock.

 

[model3sw]

At $500, you would be getting a tremendous bargain, especially since this is a target model.

Attached is a photograph of a front sight blade I bought a few years back that I intend to install on a Target New Model No 3 that I own. Long story, but mine traded hands under a streetlamp in December, and I did not even realize I was purchasing a Target Model. The rear blade, which is delicate, had snapped off, and, to compensate, the front sight was filed.

This is the correct Factory S&W sight on a New Model 3 Target with a 6" barrel. The 8" barrels have a taller sight. The optional Lyman front sights, which were available on the .32-44 Target, sit a bit lower but much more impossible to find than the OEM S&W Factory front sight.

The rear blade replacements are a PITA to find, too. Last time I needed one I made one from an old coil of blued spring steel. I'll never do that again. While the rear blade came out perfect it took me the better part of a full day to make.

 

[model3sw]

My personal recommendation to anyone interested in owning or buying any Model 3 variation is not to be allured by a lesser price for a project gun.

Once the top posts wear, which is VERY common, there's no real turning back. Spend a few more $$ and buy a nice one from a reputable collector / dealer.

There are some really nice shooters to be acquired at very fair values but an unsuspecting or naive buyer could get hurt very badly in the hopes of turning back time on a worn revolver.

I recommend you resist buying one at auction unless you are physically there to examine it, providing you know what to look for. First, grab the barrel in one hand, the grip frame in the other and "rock" it back and forth. If you can feel or hear a click or tick, put it down and walk away. Next, try the hammer notches and timing. The slightest re-cut on the hammer (many found badly filed instead of stone sharpened) screws up the entire function of the revolver. Watch our for skillful refinished revolvers unless you want a shooter ... and ... it is mechanically perrfect in every respect.

The original condition, upper grade, Model 3 revolvers are very "priicey" so don't get lured in to an online auction touting "original" unless you know for sure.

Have you ever had to return a gun to an auction house contesting NOT an original finish or NOT as described. You'd rather try and fight FedEx or UPS or USPS for that matter, to pay for a lost package. It's an arduous task which most times end in no resolution other than accepting that you've been "done".

 

[rct269]

This is the correct Factory S&W sight on a New Model 3 Target with a 6" barrel. The 8" barrels have a taller sight. The optional Lyman front sights, which were available on the .32-44 Target, sit a bit lower but much more impossible to find than the OEM S&W Factory front sight.

The rear blade replacements are a PITA to find, too. Last time I needed one I made one from an old coil of blued spring steel. I'll never do that again. While the rear blade came out perfect it took me the better part of a full day to make.

Speaking of rear blades, I have a machinist's drawing of same. I've had a blade made from it, and it fit perfectly. It's available to anyone who wants it---in exchange for the address of where to send it. Note the dimensions shown on the drawing are for a smaller frame (than #3)----that of the 1st/2nd single shots and their kinfolk. That said, it's the same blade configuration regardless of frame size--and I can provide the dimensions for the #3 frame (in .44 Russian/32-44 S&W/38-44 S&W/38 Winchester (38-40))---assuming different calibers have different heights----which they may or may not (don't remember/didn't look). This is a job for a machinist with a milling machine. While Sal did it with a file and a bunch of time attests to his undeniable skill and (abnormal) patience----also that he has to be a little bit nuts----maybe A LOT nuts. (!!)

It's also worthy of note a machinist could make a strip of what I'll call "sight stock" of virtually any length. With such in hand, one could fashion a sight for any frame size/caliber simply by whacking off a piece of appropriate length (the appropriate width for the frame), cut the height to suit and the notch of choice. I reckon the cost to have such a strip made would be essentially the same as that for one blade-------which was $35 (25 years ago).

And like that!

Ralph Tremaine

Another also worthy of note-----the drawing also treats with the blade retaining plate, and those (horrible) little-bitty screws.

And as an aside, the heights of the blades for the several calibers of NM #3's vary. Those for the (typical) NM #3 Targets (32-44 and 38-44 S&W) look to be the same (but the fronts are not). That for the NM #3 with target sights in .44 Russian is very low. That for the NM #3 Target in 38-40 is very high. The experienced and knowledgeable shooters among us will understand all this right off. The rest of us will come to understand it if we sit and stare long enough.

 

[mrcvs]

Contact me via Email. I have 2 front sights in stock.

Highly recommended! Model3sw used to have 3 of these. The photograph I depicted of a front sight--this front sight was purchased from model3sw.

 

[mrcvs]

Speaking of rear blades, I have a machinist's drawing of same. I've had a blade made from it, and it fit perfectly. It's available to anyone who wants it---in exchange for the address of where to send it. Note the dimensions shown on the drawing are for a smaller frame (than #3)----that of the 1st/2nd single shots and their kinfolk. That said, it's the same blade configuration regardless of frame size--and I can provide the dimensions for the #3 frame (in .44 Russian/32-44 S&W/38-44 S&W/38 Winchester (38-40))---assuming different calibers have different heights----which they may or may not (don't remember/didn't look). This is a job for a machinist with a milling machine. While Sal did it with a file and a bunch of time attests to his undeniable skill and (abnormal) patience----also that he has to be a little bit nuts----maybe A LOT nuts. (!!)

It's also worthy of note a machinist could make a strip of what I'll call "sight stock" of virtually any length. With such in hand, one could fashion a sight for any frame size/caliber simply by whacking off a piece of appropriate length (the appropriate width for the frame), cut the height to suit and the notch of choice. I reckon the cost to have such a strip made would be essentially the same as that for one blade-------which was $35 (25 years ago).

And like that!

Ralph Tremaine

Another also worthy of note-----the drawing also treats with the blade retaining plate, and those (horrible) little-bitty screws.

And as an aside, the heights of the blades for the several calibers of NM #3's vary. Those for the (typical) NM #3 Targets (32-44 and 38-44 S&W) look to be the same (but the fronts are not). That for the NM #3 with target sights in .44 Russian is very low. That for the NM #3 Target in 38-40 is very high. The experienced and knowledgeable shooters among us will understand all this right off. The rest of us will come to understand it if we sit and stare long enough.

And Ralph's drawings are invaluable as well!

 

[JSR III]

Not sure if they are the same Paine front sights as used on the .22-32 HFT's but I bought several from Don Mundell here on the forum and I believe that he has more. He also has quite an assortment of rear sight blades and I found a replacement for one of my other .22-32 HFT's that had broken.

His handle is Club Gun Fan and his contact info can be found on the forum. His prices are very reasonable especially when you consider that he is selling you factory original parts that were salvaged directly from the factory and not manufactured in a metal shop.

Just make sure that you send him exact dimensions.

 

[dkay62]

I want to thank everyone on this thread who contributed and answered. I have PM'ed Sal of the possibility of getting the correct sight from him. Thank you Sal, Guy, Tom, Ralph, mrcvs, jingles and James. Everyone is so helpful on this Forum. Great place to hang out and learn! - Doug

 

[Mangosteen]

Rear Blade Replacement 38-44 Target

And Ralph's drawings are invaluable as well!

Hi

I would be very interested in finding out more about the drawings to get a rear blade fabricated. I just picked up a New Model 3 Target in 38-44 but noticed the rear blade does not fit well. Someone had replaced the original blade and there is a silver small mark instead of a notch. The fit into the square female footing is not the way it should be. Any advice would be appreciated on how to get the correct drawings. I have unit 2220 with the 1 7/16 cylinder. What is everyone using for ammo and cartridges please. I heard 38 SW can be used.

 

[rct269]

38 S&W fits---after a fashion (bore size). That said, these guns were not made for use with smokess powder.

Now, if the nameless, faceless source on the internet is going to replace your gun when it's damaged, then the next thing to be considered is the replacement of a few other incidentals------hand/eye/life.

As an aside, this is not the opening gambit in a debate.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

I don't know the whys and wherefores, but my earlier post concerning ammunition seems to have been eaten by some strange beast.

Suitable brass for 38-44 S&W can be fashioned from 357 Maximum brass. The original loads for the 38-44 S&W are 20 grains of powder/146 grain round nose bullet----6 grains of powder/70 grain round ball. It is strongly recommended a user become totally familiar with black powder loading BEFORE pulling any triggers. As one of our more knowledgeable colleagues put it, "A black powder load with an air space is the definition of a pipe bomb."------------kind'a has a way with words, doesn't he?

And to continue beating a dead horse, the NM #3's were not made for use with smokeless powder.

Ralph Tremaine