DID THE SINGLE STACK 9MM KILL THE CARRY REVOLVER?

[bronco45]

I still love my Kahrs. I have 5 and have only had a moments trouble with one, at break in. I carry the CM9 with 7 rds and a trigger that feels like the finest S&W DA trigger ever honed at 6 pounds. Carry a spare mag with 7 and love the sights. Not until the 640 Pro did Smith make a serious sight for a belly gun under 2.25"s The gun 20ozs loaded with 124 grain 9mms that out shine the 38 +P greatly. I have many wheel guns of several makes and frame sizes but the CM9 in summer and CW45 in winter are my go to guns. 10 yrs of Kahrs and I have found them to be utterly reliable.

 

[Wise_A]

Do you guys know how many 642's S&W sells every year?

Answer: a lot.

Seriously, all these "revolvers are dead/obsolete/etc" articles are from precisely two kinds of miserable gun'riters: Either hot-air keyboard commandos of the new millennium desperate to convince their readers that their way is the Only Way, or old fogies trying to convince themselves that they're special.

They're both idiots.

 

[Guevera]

This thread has really brought out the revolver partisans, but my experience is different. I carried one of two of the J frames I own until I got one of the stainless S&W .380 PPK pistols.
For me, it was much easier to carry and far more accurate. I added a PPK/s magazine and a grip spacer for one more round, broke all those sharp edges with a fine file, put a tiny piece of 3M tread tape on the front of the grip, and it is perfect for my use and ability.
The reliability of the little PPK, it's safety, and its accuracy overcome any misgivings I had about caliber.
Here in the Sunny Southern Hell we call summer in Virginia, the PPK is perfect. In cooler months (which can't come too soon) I'll have a larger single stack 9, like a Walther PPS. The revolvers stay at home.

 

[paragain]

If the single stack semi auto had killed the revolver then it would have happened a hundred and twentyfive years ago with this little addition to the American firearms inventory!

 

[mazer]

I think it comes down to what the folks see on TV. Or whatever form of "fiction" or "reality" they believe is what they need....not what they can actually "use well".
Case in point, my daughter, she is in her 30's and asked for a handgun, she's never owned one of her own. So I said, SURE! What do you want? She said "a pink one", took me about a year to get over that and to seriously get down to finding out what to get her. I brought over a S&W Mod 36, a Glock sub in 9mm, a Beretta Storm sub-compact in 9mm and basically she dismissed the revolver completely, wouldn't have anything to do with it....because it wasn't "cool". Ended up she liked the "feel" of the Glock, she couldn't even rack the slide, but had to have it....THIS is why revolvers are out of style, it is the mindset...she doesn't shoot but MAYBE once a year and SHOULD honestly have the S&W Mod 36....but at least she has a gun now, her husband promised to work with her building up her strength so she could at least chamber a round!
It's been a year now, she hasn't ever shot the Glock. Or anything else. I still have the S&W Mod 36....she'll see the light one day.
I've seen this same scenario a LOT at a local gun shop, salesman sells someone a handgun, semi auto, the person can't even operate it! Women can't work the slide....they sell it to them anyways. I have to wonder how many folks that purchase these weapons actually know how to use them! From what I've seen, not many, they purchase what they see is used on TV and folks that talk-up how awful and useless a revolver is these days, that "volume of fire" seems to be what you want....not hitting what you AIM at...just throw enough rounds down range quickly and chances are your target will get hit!

 

[ladder13]

Or... Oh crud. Got to move! I'm going to get blasted with **** coming out to the side of that thing!!!

You should see em' run when the FA 454 comes out.

 

[federali]

And In Conclusion

If you search youtube, you'll find many instances of storekeepers attempting to deploy all many of firearms and who failed miserably. One in particular cost both the storekeeper and his son their lives when the storekeeper attempted to produce a gun against a drawn gun but had to rack the slide to chamber a round. Of course, the bad guy would have none of that and proceeded to riddle the storekeeper, then killing his adult son for good measure.

It's all in the mindset and training. Carry a wheel gun, a bottom-feeder or a belt-fed side feeder just as soon as one comes along. But, be the best you can be with what you carry. Do carry a spare mag. Besides spare ammo, spare mags are sometimes needed to clear a stoppage, particularly the double-feed, a stoppage likely to result in a high-anxiety situation.

Revolver fans must know how to reload in high stress situations without getting a shell casing under the extractor star. Do that and it's all over---they win.

 

[haywood]

I think it comes down to what the folks see on TV. Or whatever form of "fiction" or "reality" they believe is what they need....not what they can actually "use well".
Case in point, my daughter, she is in her 30's and asked for a handgun, she's never owned one of her own. So I said, SURE! What do you want? She said "a pink one", took me about a year to get over that and to seriously get down to finding out what to get her. I brought over a S&W Mod 36, a Glock sub in 9mm, a Beretta Storm sub-compact in 9mm and basically she dismissed the revolver completely, wouldn't have anything to do with it....because it wasn't "cool". Ended up she liked the "feel" of the Glock, she couldn't even rack the slide, but had to have it....THIS is why revolvers are out of style, it is the mindset...she doesn't shoot but MAYBE once a year and SHOULD honestly have the S&W Mod 36....but at least she has a gun now, her husband promised to work with her building up her strength so she could at least chamber a round!
It's been a year now, she hasn't ever shot the Glock. Or anything else. I still have the S&W Mod 36....she'll see the light one day.
I've seen this same scenario a LOT at a local gun shop, salesman sells someone a handgun, semi auto, the person can't even operate it! Women can't work the slide....they sell it to them anyways. I have to wonder how many folks that purchase these weapons actually know how to use them! From what I've seen, not many, they purchase what they see is used on TV and folks that talk-up how awful and useless a revolver is these days, that "volume of fire" seems to be what you want....not hitting what you AIM at...just throw enough rounds down range quickly and chances are your target will get hit!

When I worked at Gun Shops I saw guys buying guns they "thought" their Wife should have. WRONG. You should let her try before you buy. I saw a few ladies that couldn't work a slide. I saw others that hated the Recoil of the 38 Snub. We had a lady in a CCW class that could not work the slide on a LCP. He said that's OK I will load it for her. I told him no, find one she can work or pick a Revolver. He didn't want to here it. I quit teaching the Class at that point. I told the owner to handle it. I quit. I'm not going to be responsible for people that know it all.

 

[American1776]

And neither may 17 rounds. That's why I choose to play by the odds, not arm myself for Armageddon every time I leave the house.

We should all carry what we are comfortable with and prefer.

that said, the only writer I know who has compiled the biggest 'data base' of both civilian and LEO shootings is Mr. Ayoob. In his writings, you'll find that there are *many* cases of LEO's and armed private citizens who either lost a gunfight, or would have lost the fight, because they had, or had they had a 5-6 shot wheelgun. What's more telling, is that Ayoob cannot find one single case of someone armed with an 8 shot autoloader (like a 1911 or model 39) who lost a gunfight due to running the gun dry.

It seems that 8-9 shots meets a certain threshold that 5-6 doesn't, AND the super fast reload of a magazine change (over even a speed loader) keeps the good guy in the fight well enough over a wheelgun.

 

[nachogrande]

REVO VS SEMI

Or... Oh crud. Got to move! I'm going to get blasted with **** coming out to the side of that thing!!!

YOU are talking about the hot brass getting thrown all over? Not to mention picking them up for us reloaders being a royal PIA. No you don't see many snubs at the range, maybe it's a case of them only being shown to bad guys? Our steel challenge group has the occasional snub day. I think about any serious collector/owner will have examples of each & a SS Sig 239 (in stainless) is a favorite of mine, BUT it can in no way replace the ol J frame snub.

 

[DD357]

For me absolutely not (I'd rather have a snub K over any single stack); for the population as a whole; perhaps it hasn't killed them but it has cut into that market, no doubt.

 

[gnystrom]

I still love my Kahrs. I have 5 and have only had a moments trouble with one, at break in. I carry the CM9 with 7 rds and a trigger that feels like the finest S&W DA trigger ever honed at 6 pounds. Carry a spare mag with 7 and love the sights. Not until the 640 Pro did Smith make a serious sight for a belly gun under 2.25"s The gun 20ozs loaded with 124 grain 9mms that out shine the 38 +P greatly. I have many wheel guns of several makes and frame sizes but the CM9 in summer and CW45 in winter are my go to guns. 10 yrs of Kahrs and I have found them to be utterly reliable.

I completely agree on the Kahr's trigger being very similar to a great DA trigger job. I find if I need the upmost concealability, I will grab my PM9 which to date (10 years) has never given me any problems.

 

[haywood]

We should all carry what we are comfortable with and prefer.

that said, the only writer I know who has compiled the biggest 'data base' of both civilian and LEO shootings is Mr. Ayoob. In his writings, you'll find that there are *many* cases of LEO's and armed private citizens who either lost a gunfight, or would have lost the fight, because they had, or had they had a 5-6 shot wheelgun. What's more telling, is that Ayoob cannot find one single case of someone armed with an 8 shot autoloader (like a 1911 or model 39) who lost a gunfight due to running the gun dry.

It seems that 8-9 shots meets a certain threshold that 5-6 doesn't, AND the super fast reload of a magazine change (over even a speed loader) keeps the good guy in the fight well enough over a wheelgun.

That's why I like to carry extra ammo and a New York Reload.

 

[American1776]

That's why I like to carry extra ammo and a New York Reload.

the New York reload mitigates the capacity and slow reload of the revolver.

 

[DonD]

Just like the case where a lady shot her intruder 5 times with a J frame and nothing happened. Luckily for her, he didn't know she was out of ammo and decided to leave instead of getting shot a 6th time

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

All I would say is that no one is going to walk off after taking 5 shots COM with appropriate ammo.

I can guarantee you that no one will walk if they take 5 of my Buffalo Bore JHPs to the center of the torso.

Those 5 rounds must have been non lethal hits. Don

 

[Triggernosis]

Besides spare ammo, spare mags are sometimes needed to clear a stoppage, particularly the double-feed, a stoppage likely to result in a high-anxiety situation.

A double-feed is the one semi-auto stoppage that I worry about most.

 

[Arik]

All I would say is that no one is going to walk off after taking 5 shots COM with appropriate ammo.

I can guarantee you that no one will walk if they take 5 of my Buffalo Bore JHPs to the center of the torso.

Those 5 rounds must have been non lethal hits. Don

Nothing is guaranteed. Like the female cop who took a 357 round to the heart, killed her attacker and is still alive today! Extremely lucky for sure. Probably not something that could be repeated but certainly not guaranteed

"
Officer Lim was followed by a gangbanger wanting to steal her car.  When she pulled into her driveway and exited the car, he shoved a .357 Magnum at her from about five feet away and pulled the trigger.  He didn’t miss.  In Officer Lim’s own words, the .357 bullet hit her “just left center of my chest, it went through my chest and out my back, nicked my diaphragm, my liver, my intestine, shattered my spleen, put a hole in the base of my heart, and left a tennis-ball-sized hole in my back as it exited.  It knocked me back into my car door.”

Officer Lim fired at the gangbanger and as he ran she pursued him around her car and fired three more shots at him, hitting him in the shoulder, the back, and the base of the neck.  And that ended the fight.

Peter Soulis hit Tim Palmer with 22 rounds of .40 S&W before Palmer finally stopped.  Jared Reston was hit with 7 rounds of .45 ACP and never did stop, he won that fight.  Richard Blackburn was hit with five .357 Magnums and still managed to shoot and kill the officer who he was fighting with

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[American1776]

All I would say is that no one is going to walk off after taking 5 shots COM with appropriate ammo.

I can guarantee you that no one will walk if they take 5 of my Buffalo Bore JHPs to the center of the torso.

Those 5 rounds must have been non lethal hits. Don

There are many documented cases of people absorbing multiple COM hits with .357 magnum, .45acp, even .44 magnum and 00 buckshot, and still going on to fight (and even kill or maim) the one shooting them.

Look at the case from Illinois, Sgt. Grammins, who fire more than 40 rounds of .45 JHP at an armed bank robber, hitting the suspect 7 times in the torso. It took 3 shots to the head to stop the guy.

Or, the tragic case of Trooper Mark Coates, who shot his attacker 5 times in the torso with a .357 magnum, (winchester silver tip magnums). The attacker then shot Coates in the side with a .22 revolver, killing him.

Listen to the interview by Bob Stasche, Chicago PD. He recounts gun fights wherein he and his partner shot suspects multiple times with .45 colt hollowpoints and .38 spl. hollowpoints, with the suspects still trying to kill the officers. His partner emptied his .45 colt revolver into the chest of one attacker, then emptied his 38 spl into the mans back, and the man still advanced with a butcher knife.


These are just a few documented cases where 5,6,7 or even more rounds to the chest didn't work.

 

[Arik]

I'll take it one step further. There have been plenty of people who survived being shot by machine guns, documented cases of insurgents in Iraq taking multiple hits from a 50BMG before stopping. And one man even survived TWO atomic bombs and their fallout......and lived into his 80s

So while Buffalo Bore maybe better than something else it's certainly not guaranteed
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[mj2008]

It seems more people are gravitating to the single stack auto loaders but killed the compact revolver? No way! You have Colt back manufacturing a six shot double action revolver, and Kimber selling revolvers and of course Smith and Ruger. Revolvers are going to be around a long time. For myself I prefer to carry a revolver compared to the slim autos. I'll take the reliability and ease of my revolvers over the extra shot or two.