UPDATE 4/30/18 - Gun is Finished! - This makes me sick - Barrel Crack - PC Comp40

[SVT28]

Arik, I don't want to make an attempt with the rubber mallet to get it apart just yet. The compenstator is in the way of hitting it on the barrel end.

Nacho, I did think that the next bullet in the mag was suspicious looking. I pulled the next few out in order and they also had some pretty heavy crimps/indentations. I'm not too familiar with tolerances and reloading, but does that unfired bullet look weird to you?

One thing is for sure, old steel held up on this one. Other than the barrel crack, it seems unscathed. The compensator did not have and lead chunks or indication of a fragemented bullet. Obviously S&W probably doesn't have the machinery or tooling, nor BarSto to craft a new barrel and fit this compensator on it. At that point they are either going to compensate me or not, pending on the judgement on the failure, and do the credit thing or say take it up with Federal, you aren't getting anything from us. And you aren't getting your gun back.

I'll be calling Barsto, and a local gunsmith named Frank Glenn Tuesday to see their thoughts on repair/replacement of parts. Are there any other recommendations?

SVT28

 

[Nacho Man]

That round looks weird like its seated too deep. Ive fired that ammo before and don't remember seeing that on the casings in 9mm or 45.
40 cal already a high pressure round, spike in pressure like that can't be good.
The good thing is you're ok though and not injured.
I would contact S&W first and see what course of action is needed

 

[GaryS]

I'm a bit confused about a couple of things. If the compensator can't be removed, how is the gun disassembled for cleaning and routine maintenance? I tried to find pictures on line, but there is nothing about the gun available.

Also, some people have suggested that S&W will not repair the gun, or offer compensation, but will refuse to return the gun. Can someone point me to the MA or federal law that allows a private company to confiscate a person's property without recourse?

 

[SVT28]

GaryS, when the slide is removed, as well as the recoil spring, the barrel rotates downward freely in the barrel bushing. From my research, there is no way to remove the compensator without serious tools. It looks like it's potentially pressed or clamped on somehow. Maybe its threaded? I just used small nylon brushes and qtips to clean the barrel hood and inside of slide.

Do you know of anyone who sent a gun with this type of failure and was able to get it back? I'm just trying to better understand my options as well.

SVT28

 

[GaryS]

That's an interesting system.

Since there were so few of these guns made, I can't answer your question. There have been post here, as recently as last week, where someone was told that their 3rd Gen gun couldn't be fixed and was offered a M&P at a discount, or could have the broken gun returned to them.

I just can't see where S&W would tell a customer that their gun couldn't be repaired AND that S&W wouldn't send it back.

GaryS, when the slide is removed, as well as the recoil spring, the barrel rotates downward freely in the barrel bushing. From my research, there is no way to remove the compensator without serious tools. It looks like it's potentially pressed or clamped on somehow. Maybe its threaded? I just used small nylon brushes and qtips to clean the barrel hood and inside of slide.

Do you know of anyone who sent a gun with this type of failure and was able to get it back? I'm just trying to better understand my options as well.

SVT28

 

[BMCM]

GaryS, there is no way to remove the compensator without serious tools. It looks like it's potentially pressed or clamped on somehow. Maybe its threaded?
SVT28

I'd wager real money that compensator is threaded onto the barrel and secured with adhesive along the lines of Rocksett or a high strength threadlocker. Any lesser means would shoot loose in no time.
I suspect they used Loctite 271 on there as coincidentally that's the same adhesive used to secure the Briley bushing in place once screwed into the end of the slide.. You loosen that stuff with a bit of heat. To remove a Briley bushing you heat the end of the slide/bushing up to about 400°f with a heat gun then flip the gold nitrided ring out to 90° and use that as a handle to unscrew the bushing from the slide.

Industrial heat gun only...no torch. I bet that Comp will turn right off with a little heat

Cheers
Bill

 

[Sevens]

I don't think of myself as a pessimist but I feel like I must be a realist. I would be nearly jaw-droppingly shocked if anyone at S&W today knows what they are looking at when they see this pistol.

I would believe that there are craftsmen at Bar-Sto that actually could make this a working pistol again.

It looks like the kind of crack you'd get not from an over-pressure event but rather from a flawed barrel that was flawed from day one and just hadn't "let go" until now.

I cannot pretend to share the full effect of the hurt you're feeling right now but I'm horrified over here reading & seeing these pictures.

 

[BMCM]

By the way... I advise not beating on the thing or otherwise attempting to retract the slide. What needs doing here is the fixture the gun on a mill table and use an end mill through the ejection port to precisely cut out as much of the barrel as possible without touching the slide in order for it to release.

Attempting to force the split & expanded chamber to retract into the slide beneath the locking lugs poses too much a risk of further damage IMO.

Cheers
Bill

 

[4506517]

Also, some people have suggested that S&W will not repair the gun, or offer compensation, but will refuse to return the gun. Can someone point me to the MA or federal law that allows a private company to confiscate a person's property without recourse?

This ^^^^^^^^^^

I understand they don't support the pistol anymore. Got it. But how they can keep something that I paid for and own, just because they feel it is a "legal liability" I don't understand.

 

[4506517]

SVT,

I really feel bad for you. As a fellow 3rd Gennie guy, this must be extremely frustrating. I can't offer you any constructive advice....I know I'd be mad as all get out. And I mean MAD.

I hope.....I really hope, that someone make this right for you.

4 rounds and then catastrophic failure is unacceptable.

 

[federali]

The casings themselves are quite weak and would easily rupture outside of a chamber. My point being that no casing would save a barrel from failing. I've had split necks and casings in rifles without incident other than to throw away the casing.

If any range staff witnessed this, it might help to obtain a statement from them while its fresh in their mind.

Sorry that your first outing with the gun proud nearly disastrous. Glad you were not injured.

 

[SVT28]

The condolences are greatly appreciated. I have been collecting Smith and Wesson autos for quite some time now, and have shot thousands of rounds of ammo through them. I now have over 20 first second and third gen guns and I can count on one hand the malfunctions I've had. I've shot reloads, Brown Bear, aluminum cased, brass cased, hot and underpowered ammo and have never had a catastrophic failure. 1 or 2 failure to ejects, and maybe 2 or 3 failures to feed.

Then I get this pistol to finally satisfy my need for a shooter and a looker, in a caliber that is seeing huge discounts/salad days and with 8 mags, thought this competitive pistol was going to run like a top. The first four shots were pretty much through the same hole on the target. The accuracy was top notch, and I fear I may never get to enjoy this pistol. Money isn't a big deal to me, I can always sell other assets or make more money. What I won't be able to do, is find another one of these...

I'm hoping with enough persistence, patience, and trust, (and probably $$$) I'll find a resolution that gets this gun back on the clock. Sucks I have to stew over this the whole holiday weekend... It would have been a lot tougher day if not for the mint original 12-3 two inch I found in the used gun case and bought before I went out to shoot. This range NEVER has a good used Smith and Wesson in the used case. The range officer and owner did offer to write up a witness statement, and paid for my range time as well as my SO's. The sympathy was strong.

SVT28

 

[ditto1958]

It looks like the kind of crack you'd get not from an over-pressure event but rather from a flawed barrel that was flawed from day one and just hadn't "let go" until now.

I was wondering about that when I first looked at the OP's picture. That just shouldn't happen. I'm not sure why Federal puts that warning on their ammo, but whatever the case, firing a handful of rounds in a "normal" gun should not create a castastrophic failure like that.

 

[SVT28]

I spoke to my father (mechanical engineer) this evening and he also shared the same opinion as some of you. He evaluated the pictures and said that where the barrel is cracked and how it was cracked, that stress or a flaw in the barrel may be the culprit. He said barrel metals will tend to bulge first before cracking/exploding. Since the crack(s) are the widest and start at the beginning of the chamber, he thinks the barrel just gave up the ghost.

Given the low production of these custom barrels, he opined that the production was not consistent and I lucked into one that was going to fail. I inspected the whole gun with a fine tooth gun after I bought it, but he said stress cracks or fractures in the metallurgy sometimes are invisible to the naked eye.

 

[regalsc]

There might still be someone at S&W that would know if your gun. When I called a couple of months ago to get mags for my 945 the person I spoke with said that he remembered those guns & that they took a lot of machining to make & a considerable amount of time. He also looked up the date my gun left after being produced. I shot some of that Federal aluminum 45 out of one of my revolvers it was different sounding & sparks were shooting from the barrel when firing.

 

[6string]

Sorry for your HUGE troubles.
There's a lot of "Browning 101" going on here.
The angle of the first pic makes it difficult to see, but does the crack line up with the corner of the hood extension?
If so, I think that tips the scale towards barrel defect.
Interesting to note that the external extractor is not displaced or damaged, so case failure seems less likely.

A good gunsmith/machinist will probably drill out the slide stop lever extension/tab where it fits into the frame cutout. This can be done with no damage to any other part. The slide stop is then free to be pushed out. The whole upper assembly should then come forward right off the frame.

I agree with the idea that the comp is threaded onto an extension of the barrel and chemically fixed in place. Some heat from a propane torch should break the bond, be it thread lock, epoxy, whatever. Just clamp the comp in a padded vise, apply the heat, and at the same time apply some light/moderate counterclockwise torque via the gripframe. Once the heat kicks in, the bond will easily and cleanly release. Unscrew the comp from the barrel with no damage to anything.

If Bar Sto doesn't make this style barrel any longer, there are surely others who do. (See my next post.)

I would definitely add Bar Sto to your list of manufacturers to contact.

Don't send the gun to anyone who won't provide a written statement that the gun, or full compensation, will be returned.
Besides the cost of a new barrel, and a couple hrs of labor cost for a gunsmith, there's no reason to write this off as a loss.

Also, despite my off-the-cuff 'smithing advice, the disassembly advice given should probably only be tried by whomever it has been determined will take responsibility.
I don't know the value of the gun (monetary or sentimental), but it may be easier to let an expert gunsmith just fix it.

By the way, you did a great job of exercising sound judgement in handling the problem!

Best Wishes,
Jim

PS: Did you look through the magazine opening to check the underside of the chamber? Most times a case/ammo defect is involved there will be some evidence of damage or "blow out". My guess is "no", since the magazine itself looks fine.

PPS: "please" don't hit anything with a mallet!

 

[6string]

If you're left without a replacement barrel and are facing the prospect of a custom made barrel, I can recommend IGB-Austria.
IGB Austria / Online Shop

They make very high end barrels.
Check out this very exotic job they recently did on a very nice Hämmerli P240:
TargetTalk • View topic - Bulged barrel of my SIG H"ammerli P 240
There's some good links along the way through the thread.

Anyhow, IGB is enthusiastic about taking on custom work for one-off guns.

Best Regards,
Jim

 

[Wise_A]

I don't believe it's necessarily a failure of the barrel. I think what happened is that you experienced bullet setback, which created an overpressure situation.

The compensator is a non-issue. What would happen in that situation is that the bullet would be damaged as it passed by the ports, and go flying in some random downrange direction. Alternatively, worst-case, the compensator would tear itself free of the barrel.

If this diagnosis is correct, the manufacturer should be extremely concerned about the situation. Setback in an automatic is caused by insufficient neck tension. When the slide closes and attempts to push the cartridge out of the magazine and into the chamber, it pushes the bullet deeper into the case.

Insufficient neck tension happens for all sorts of reasons. Over-expansion of the case mouth is one, an undersized or mis-shaped bullet is another. Over-crimping is also a possibility, and one that people overlook--too much crimp causes the mouth to pinch the bullet, and the case to bulge out below that.

 

[scooter123]

Bar-Sto is still in business and IMO the fault for this failure is on them. Because that appears to be a failure produced by a hidden flaw in the barrel material. Unfortunately the only way to detect these kinds of flaws is with some rather expensive X-Ray equipment and someone trained in how to use this and read the X-Rays, something that your typical Machine Shop won't have on hand.

Because they are a long standing business and the ones who produced the original barrels it's quite likely they will have the Engineering Drawings for these barrels on file. It's also very likely they have every thing needed to re-produce a new barrel from those drawings. I think that if you contact Bar-Sto and email them pics of your pistol they will probably ask that you send them the pistol. With luck they will put it back in 100% working order for no charge but considering the rarity of this pistol it's worth repairing even if it does cost you some money.

 

[iPac]

I spoke to my father (mechanical engineer) this evening and he also shared the same opinion as some of you. He evaluated the pictures and said that where the barrel is cracked and how it was cracked, that stress or a flaw in the barrel may be the culprit. He said barrel metals will tend to bulge first before cracking/exploding. Since the crack(s) are the widest and start at the beginning of the chamber, he thinks the barrel just gave up the ghost.

Given the low production of these custom barrels, he opined that the production was not consistent and I lucked into one that was going to fail. I inspected the whole gun with a fine tooth gun after I bought it, but he said stress cracks or fractures in the metallurgy sometimes are invisible to the naked eye.

I was leaning towards a barrel failure from the start. If it was an overpressure round, you would have known it.

You never answered if the gun was "new" or "used" but judging that it's an old 3rd gen I'm going to guess it was "used" when you purchased.

So you have two scenarios most likely, the barrel was originally defective and it took this long to fail. Or, the gun was abused with overpressured loads by the previous owner/s before you acquired it, and it just now failed for you.

Either way sucks, especially for a gun produced in such low numbers. Although, that gunsmith you are going to get in touch with should be able to take good care you.