Brand new BLEW UP IN MY FACE ON SHOT#16

[Dad_Roman]

As mentioned, without pictures and documentation of the AMMO, this is all hearsay and even then SPECULATION!

Yep, good thread and I hope to see a positive outcome from it.

but...

Im inquisitive about the circumstances like everyone else. Dont doubt anything the OP has stated but also have a ton of additional questions.

The thread is titled "Brand New.....Blew Up In My Face". It insinuates that the gun blew up when it appears to me that its possible that the round blew up (for what ever the reasons) and the magazine took the brunt of it with the gun possibly even SAVING him from harm. Im going to go ahead and insinuate that the gun "saved his life" (yes....Im a bit of a S&W fanboi) and after a long investigation we will find the truth somewhere in the middle

(run my M&P @ full auto rate on wolf with no issues) yet

 

[rct269]

------------------puts me in mind of a visit to my BIG TIME client several years ago.

I was making my way up the back stairs from the shop area to the office. Now the front stairs were built by folks who know how to build stairs---the back stairs were pretty much home brew. The risers were mostly too tall, and pretty much none of them were the same height------------and all of them were filthy dirty!

KAFLAMMATER!!! I trip, fall down---and forward---sprawled full length on the stairs. It was not a pretty sight!

The shop foreman, an east Tennessee "good old country boy" (with accent to match), was at the bottom of the stairs---looked up, and called out------------

"Raelph---you want me to call you a laaaawyer?!!"

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Nevada Ed]

Very glad you are ok..................
also welcome to the forum.

I am old fashioned and don't do "Black".............
I use the M1 or older.

Stay safe.

 

[Kilminator]

Updates and questions answered

The weapon was wiped down, and thoroughly inspected prior to loading. The ammo was new factory loads. I bought several boxes at the same time I bought the gun. It is Federal XM193F M193 ball ammo. 5.56mm which is what my rifle is chambered for. There were 16 rounds fired, there were 16 holes in the target. One of the last group fired hit about 10 inches low at 25 yards. I assume this was the final round that was so low because the detonation occurred without the breach being fully closed. My guess but I'm open to other theories. I took the gun to the dealer today and we called S&W together. I documented everything and left the gun with the dealer. S&W asked a number of preliminary questions and sent us a shipping label to return. The dealer agreed with me that the gun detonated out of battery. I expect S&W to contact me when they receive the weapon and make some determination. Thanks for all the concern.

 

[sgtsandman]

The weapon was wiped down, and thoroughly inspected prior to loading. The ammo was new factory loads. I bought several boxes at the same time I bought the gun. It is Federal XM193F M193 ball ammo. 5.56mm which is what my rifle is chambered for. There were 16 rounds fired, there were 16 holes in the target. One of the last group fired hit about 10 inches low at 25 yards. I assume this was the final round that was so low because the detonation occurred without the breach being fully closed. My guess but I'm open to other theories. I took the gun to the dealer today and we called S&W together. I documented everything and left the gun with the dealer. S&W asked a number of preliminary questions and sent us a shipping label to return. The dealer agreed with me that the gun detonated out of battery. I expect S&W to contact me when they receive the weapon and make some determination. Thanks for all the concern.

Please let us know the outcome.

 

[bamashooter]

Glad you're none the worse for wear and welcome to the forum.

 

[rwsmith]

OOB discharge???

While it is remotely possible, with the perfect set a mechanical break downs, I don't believe you had an OOB discharge. There are several other more common/likely issues that I would check before pointing to an OOB discharge.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

OH, 'out of battery discharge'. I thought I was reading about a medical condition.

 

[rwsmith]

NO BIG DEAL...

Well I'm not quite a newbie with over 700 posts but I can and do make mistakes. I just don't remember clicking the like button. But I sometimes click the mouse just by accident and probably clicked right on the button that time. For whatever reason I didn't mean to imply I liked what happened. I just wanted to be clear about that since the poster was new. I know there are reasons to like such posts and in truth I'm glad that he posted the info. It's good to keep us all on our toes if nothing else and to watch for more issues like that too. But I didn't want to appear crass to someone who is new here and maybe doesn't understand the things you stated so well. I made a mistake and I wanted to clear it up. Simple as that.

Please don't be sore. You aren't a newbie, so that is fine. Zero criticism was meant for any post of any kind on this thread. It's ALL good stuff. Just telling actual newbies that there is no such thing as a negative 'like'.

 

[C J]

OH, 'out of battery discharge'. I thought I was reading about a medical condition

These days it's more likely to be "get out of that bed, you're discharged" even though they barely read your chart and treated you for something you didn't have and left it at that. Trust me I know. Just happened to me recently. And I have double insurance.

 

[JayFramer]

Smith & Wesson WILL make it right for you. Ring them in the morn.

 

[C J]

You aren't a newbie, so that is fine. Zero criticism was meant for any post of any kind on this thread.

Yeah I knew what you meant. I just wanted to make my position clear. I didn't mean to imply any criticism of your post either.

 

[Jim Watson]

It seems a day doesn't go by without reading about a gun going off "Out of Battery." Have the manufacturers quit putting disconnectors in their guns? Or is it a catch-all "I don't know what really happened so it must have gone off out of battery." Or an excuse, "I can't possibly have made a mistake building a Lego-gun or loading ammo in a hurry, so it must have gone off out of battery."

 

[M29since14]

What ammunition was being used?

Glad you're OK. I agree with WR Moore. Contact S&W yourself and follow their instructions/requests. They will get things straightened out for you if their rifle was at fault.

 

[hdwhit]

Kliminator wrote:
I expect S&W to contact me when they receive the weapon and make some determination.

Do not be surprised if the only communication you receive from S&W is a letter accompanying either your repaired rifle or a new Sport II.

You do need to understand that while you have so far only expressed an interest in getting the gun repaired, in the eyes of S&W's attorneys you are a lawsuit waiting to be filed, so the communications may become very formal - and sparse - from this point on. They will fix or replace your rifle, but that may be about all you ever find out about what they learn about what happened.

 

[rtquig]

What ammunition was being used?

Glad you're OK. I agree with WR Moore. Contact S&W yourself and follow their instructions/requests. They will get things straightened out for you if their rifle was at fault.

Read post # 44 and it will tell you what ammunition was used.

 

[MichiganScott]

There have been several "kabooms" of S&W AR's shown on these forums since I've joined. S&W almost always blames the ammo and offers to sell a new rifle to the owner at cost. Unfortunately, what they consider cost with a Sport is about what you can buy one for online. S&W knows that since no one was injured that this incident will never see a court.

Federal will blame the rifle when and if S&W contacts them..

The OP will never see the original rifle again. Sorry.

I have two S&W AR's that have had the snot shot out of them, and I have total faith that I can continue to do so. Things happen.

 

[bamashooter]

OP, I'm so glad that you're okay! And, welcome to the forum.
I sure do hope that you get all of this cleared up. It will be very interesting to see whom is responsible for this; the ammo manufacturer, or S&W.
Did you hire good representation? Good luck!

In all likelihood, at no fault of the OP, the truth will never be known as to what caused the malfunction.

 

[Ed Fowler]

The last year I had the joy of experiencing two blow up using Federal and CCI ammo. Twice in a S&W victor, once in a vintage Win Mod 61. Each time the extractors were blown somewhere, the shots were very loud and obviously an over charge.

Customer service with CCI and Federal both "claimed out of battery", I knew better, but S&W took good care of me repaired the Victor three times, then another over charged 22 and feeling sorry for S&W just retired it. The extractor for the vintage Win Mod 61 was very costly and hard to find.

These events occurred during the ammo shortage and I can understand quality control problems, but when the customer service agents lied to me I decided I would never again purchase anything from Federal or CCI.

 

[scooter123]

By desing the BCG on an AR-15, or m4/m16, "shrouds" the firing pin from the hammer until the BCG is nearly fully forward. In theory this insures that the locking lugs on the bolt face will be engaged in the barrel extension but in any manufactured product theory is usually only about 99.8% effective. Basically if the locking surfaces both bolt and barrel extension are mis machined just "wrong" something like this could happen. However the typical result of an ignition before the locking surfaces are engaged usually results in the BCG being jammed into the buffer tube. From the pics shown I'm guessing on a firing pin stuck forward of the breech face that struck the primer as the cartridge was being fed into the chamber. The end result of this is a case head rupture that blows out through the magazine well and ejection port. If that is the case there should be a bullet stuck in the barrel. Because this type of failure will normally occur before bolt is closed and chamber pressures usually don't reach a high enough pressure to actually propel the bullet out of the barrel. I'll also note these types of malfunctions usually don't result in any serious injury, they just scare the bejesus out of the shooter and blow the magazine to bits.

So, what would cause a stuck firing pin. First is a lack of proper cleaning an maintenance. Second is debris becoming lodged in the firing pin channel. Third is plain old piss poor machining of the surfaces involved. Since this was round #16 it's safe to say that improper maintenance is NOT the problem. So, IMO the cause is either poor production equipment maintenance or something as simple as a chipped or broken ream. Both of which would be caused by problems at S&W.

Another possible cause for this type of malfunction is a case that ruptured during extraction. In that case the issue is an ammunition related malfunction, so Federal should be contacted and in the loop with S&W's examination result.

Bottomline is simple. This is most likely a Warranty problem and S&W should be called immediately. Note I did say CALLED, as in by telephone. Because S&W has gained a bit of a reputation for NOT reading their emails in a manner that most of us would consider timely. However in their defense it's probably because 90% or more of their email is SPAM and cleaning that stuff out of your email every single day rather quickly becomes a mind numbingly tedious exercise.

 

[Rastoff]

I documented everything and left the gun with the dealer.

Did the dealer refund your money?