Low-density Powder for .38/.357

[oddshooter]

Trail Boss 4.9g gives me 910fps in a .5" group at 25 yards with 6" 357 mag. benchrested.

You can not add any more than 4.9g into the case without compressing.
Trail Boss is never to be compressed !!!

 

[Rule3]

It is hard to pick a one powder does it all.

38 special and 380 do better with certain powders, that are not the best for 357 mag or 9mm.

Your PP is good in the 9mm and sort of OK in 357 mag,

38 special is more of low pressure round compared to a high pressure 9mm or 357 MAG.

Yes, Trail Boss can do them all to a degree,

HS6 is not the best choice for 38 special or 380. Yes there is data

Does it have to be just ONE powder for all and fill the cases and be "clean" burning?

Heck, go back to Unique or use HP38/Win 231

There are so MANY powders and so many options.

 

[captainjohnsofd]

I know it is labor intensive, but I weigh EACH charge before pouring it into a case. Laugh if you must. A slower method to be sure.....but safety takes priority.

 

[MichiganScott]

I know it is labor intensive, but I weigh EACH charge before pouring it into a case. Laugh if you must. A slower method to be sure.....but safety takes priority.

No laughing here; I do the same, plus using a flashlight to verify powder levels in the cases while they are in the loading blocks.

It's usually too nasty outside to shoot from early November to early May. By May 1st, I have very few empty cartridges cases in the gun room. You can only watch so much television.

 

[Sevens]

I certainly would not laugh at that procedure... especially if you good men will agree that some of us reach a point where that is not a viable method for us. My rock solid procedure is the tray of 50 rounds that each gets charged and inspected before capping each of the 50 with a slug... and then batch seating all 50.

2017 was my lowest production in 6 years due to life occurrences but it was still over 8,000 rounds, and that's metering each charge through my Lyman 55.

To weigh each of those (and more), I would need a staff to help.

 

[mikld]

FWIW; I've always tried to impress on new reloaders to be safe, learn safe methods right from the start. I do not rely on powder density to be safe as I look in every case I've charged before I seat a bullet. Just a habit with me.

I use a lot of Universal now for my 9mm, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 44 Specials and Mags, and 45 ACP. When loaded to mid or upper levels, as most powders, it burns clean (something that means nothing in my reloading world as I clean my guns after each range session)..

 

[dogdoc]

No laughing here; I do the same, plus using a flashlight to verify powder levels in the cases while they are in the loading blocks.

It's usually too nasty outside to shoot from early November to early May. By May 1st, I have very few empty cartridges cases in the gun room. You can only watch so much television.

You either do not shoot many hundreds of rounds frequently or have infinite time! I have used progressive loaders since the mid 1980s (dillons) and never looked back. I cannot imagine the tedium of loading thousands of rounds weighing each charge. But to each his own and you cannot argue that you are not being safe. I guess most of us can live with with a little risk which is very small with some precautions.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I know it is labor intensive, but I weigh EACH charge before pouring it into a case. Laugh if you must. A slower method to be sure.....but safety takes priority.

I charge my cases then pull random ones from my load block and check weight. Then look at them all and compare visually.

 

[GeoJelly]

At this point, I have to add a little more info here in the interest of full disclosure: I have not yet bought a scale ... ... I have been using the RCBS Lil Dandy with a few rotors and their powder chart which is based on VMD. After reading about some possible real issues with the VMD data – a scale is my next purchase. Off topic but most of my dies, rotors have come from A-zon versus Midway. Midway's excessive shipping charges coupled with their use of UPS Sure Post has ticked me off for the last time. And, even more disclosure, I have swagged .38 Short Colt loads using .380 data. So far nary a problem with .38SC since I test fire the first rounds of each batch in one of my SP-101's - and I'm pretty sure the case vol's are close between.380 and .38SC. And, since I am shaming myself here, I again admit to being wrong about the VMD of HS-6. I may very well go back to using Unique since it is available ...

Added a .38SC photo - I really like how that short little round speed loads in the 442 and 101 ...

 

[1sailor]

First let me say that I am not trying to start an argument or tell anyone that they're method is incorrect. But I do not see how charging several cases in a row on a single stage press is safer than going start to finish on each round on a turret press. As long as you are capable of raising and lowering the handle it is virtually impossible to do a double charge. After the 4th stroke you have a fully finished round which seems to me to be a LOT safer than charging a whole bunch of cases then going back and seating the bullets afterwards. With each stroke of the handle the dies rotate to the next station. You would have to intentionally and manually move the dies back by hand to get a second charge in there. Even if you prefer to weigh each charge, which I have found necessary with some powders, you are still only charging one case at a time then finishing off the round. Also, I have noticed that all of my reloading manuals list a maximum safe charge. It is simply a matter of following the plainly outlined directions for safe charges. None of these powders will trick you into double charging. Simply follow the rules and you'll be fine.

 

[Wise_A]

1sailor--Again, not to argue, but many turret presses are capable of failing to advance. Although personally, I worry more about an under-charge than a double-charge.

On either press, placing a bullet immediately after charging is a good idea.

I usually weigh the first 10 or so, sometimes more, and then every 5th or 10th after that, depending on a few things--what the powder is, how often I've loaded that particular powder/charge combo, etc.

 

[1sailor]

I'm not familiar with all the turret presses out there but the only way I can imagine that a Lee press can fail to advance is if it's broken. Since each advance is performed manually by lowering the handle you are actually looking at the press as you perform the operation. If for some reason it were to stop advancing it would never complete the round anyway. Ball powders like w231, Universal, Titegroup and Longshot tend to be amazingly consistent never varying more than about a half a tenth either way. When using H110 though I find it is not consistent enough to not weigh each charge. But again, the very next steps finish that round. One issue I had years ago when using a single stage press was that it always seemed as though half way through filling up the loading block somebody would come to the door or dinner would be ready or some darn thing. An extra advantage to completely finishing one round at a time is that you can stop as soon as you finish that round (a couple of seconds) and walk away without having to worry later about where you left off. I suppose my original point was that it has to be a LOT SAFER to finish one round at a time completely.

 

[dogdoc]

At this point, I have to add a little more info here in the interest of full disclosure: I have not yet bought a scale ... ... I have been using the RCBS Lil Dandy with a few rotors and their powder chart which is based on VMD. After reading about some possible real issues with the VMD data – a scale is my next purchase. Off topic but most of my dies, rotors have come from A-zon versus Midway. Midway's excessive shipping charges coupled with their use of UPS Sure Post has ticked me off for the last time. And, even more disclosure, I have swagged .38 Short Colt loads using .380 data. So far nary a problem with .38SC since I test fire the first rounds of each batch in one of my SP-101's - and I'm pretty sure the case vol's are close between.380 and .38SC. And, since I am shaming myself here, I again admit to being wrong about the VMD of HS-6. I may very well go back to using Unique since it is available ...

Added a .38SC photo - I really like how that short little round speed loads in the 442 and 101 ...

It looks like it would work in the 9mm LCR but I didn't have time, and I was hesitant, to test it ...

Do load any more until you get a scale to verify charge. Very bad to rely only on volume as that can vary lot to lot. All charges based on weight. Even with Lee dipper I verify with a good scale. You can get one now for less than 50 buck that will work fine

 

[1sailor]

Also there are usually a ton of powder scales on ebay. A good beam scale will last a lifetime with only the simplest of maintenance.

 

[cowboy4evr]

'The op said he was having to pinch pennies . Trail boss is about the most expensive powder to use as a bottle is not a 1 lb , it's 9 ounces and almost the same price as most other powders that weigh a pound , Vectan weighs more than a pound . Red Dot is pretty bulky and not expensive . WST is another good choice . Regards , Paul

 

[Qc Pistolero]

OP:for your goal of having a powder that will avoid double charging without you seeing it,Trail Boss is the King of the Hill.But if like me you don't like it,Red Dot and 700X are quite bulky for their weight but neither will overfill the case in case of said double charge;but the difference in volume will be obvious at just a quick glance.

 

[oddshooter]

I believe the powder is the least expensive component in handloading. It is not worth it to use cost as the criteria for choice of powder.


There is 7,000 GRAINS to a pound. At 5GRAINS load , 7,2000/5 =1400 rounds in a pound. Titegroup sells for $17.50. $17.50/1400=.012
Brass is $.25 (or free), bullets are $.10 to $.25. Powder is $.012.

But, if penny pinching is the goal: I don't know any better than TiteGroup for low cost rounds. That same density also makes it easy and dangerous to make a double charge. I love TiteGroup, but it is also spiky at max levels. The pressure does not rise linearly. For that reason, there are a fair number of folks that don't like TiteGroup.

TiteGroup of 5GRAINS in 357mag gets 950fps and 1" groups at 25 yards benchrest.

Prescut

 

[Rule3]

If you have NO SCALE then no SOUP FOR YOU!!

A scale is the MOST IMPORTANT tool in reloading.

You Need One before you do anything else.

I prefer Beam Balance scales but even a cheap digital is better than nothing and having both is the best.

You like Amazon then get this one.
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[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Ohaus-30332167-10-10-Reloading-Scale/dp/B074VJ5LQG/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1523053281&sr=8-18&keywords=reloading+scale"]Ohaus 30332167 10-10 Reloading Scale, Cast Metal, Grey: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific[/ame]

 

[Narragansett]

I have recently gotten back into reloading after an 18-year absence. I lived in Germany for 16 of those years and buying powder there was just too difficult. Back in late 2016, I picked up two cans of Power Pistol in case the election went south. PP has worked very well for 9mm and .380 and even pretty well for .38 Short Colt (yes, I'm that weird ... ).

I've started loading more .38 SPL and am worried about the volume density of PP - I just loaded some Speer 125 JSP's with 6.8-g of PP. As a test case, I double-charged a couple of cases with the PP load and it did not fill them; it left enough space that a bullet could prolly be seated.

OK, so to the point - I would like to get a can of clean burning mid-range powder - faster than 2400 (which I used alot many years ago). And, whatever powder I get needs to more fully fill a .38 SPL case. I've done some checking around and it looks like HS-6 might fit the bill, and not have as much flash and bang at the range.

Again, I'm not a complete newbie to reloading but a lot has changed in the last 20 years!! It looks like my old 2400/Unique loading days are long gone. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated...

All this topic has done is make me realize how much I do not know about powder anymore. I have not reloaded in 20 years, and then it was shotgun. I used green dot for shotgun target loads and 2400 for all magnum pistol loadings. I did use some unique. I stayed away from bullseye. As I recall, it was quite dirty. Never heard of some of the powders being mentioned here. Have some research to do. I think there are green dot pistol loads

 

[Qc Pistolero]

All this topic has done is make me realize how much I do not know about powder anymore. I have not reloaded in 20 years, and then it was shotgun. I used green dot for shotgun target loads and 2400 for all magnum pistol loadings. I did use some unique. I stayed away from bullseye. As I recall, it was quite dirty. Never heard of some of the powders being mentioned here. Have some research to do. I think there are green dot pistol loads

Hey!don't feel bad about it!You can still go by with Green Dot,Unique and 2400 and do pretty well.
There are some very good new powders out there but these 3 were and still are very good ones.