Shield 9mm, Can't Rack Slide, Live Round in Chamber

[Larry1945]

Thanks Rastoff, that confirms it. Rather than a hole like I see in your cases, this one just has an indentation where a punch or drill hit it but didn't penetrate the brass. And unlike yours, this case is very clean indicating that it is indeed a new case (see attached thumbnail photo).

Man, it seems like with the millions of cases that are produced you'd see a defect like this more often, doesn't it?

Anyway, thanks again to all of you who participated in this discussion, and hat's off to Speedo2 and 199 for nailing it. For me this has been a fun and very educational experience, and I hope others have learned something as well...

 

[RGVshooter]

Was the ammo purchased new by the OP from Freedom Munitions? Or did the OP purchase what he thought was a new box of Freedom Munitions from someone else?

Because that round in the photo is not a new round from Freedom Munitions. That looks like a Winchester NATO headstamp. It's definitely a NATO headstamp. And the primer looks like it was fired.

 

[BC38]

Glad to see the mystery solved.
Clearly this isn't a fault to be blamed on Freedom Munitions - since the brass was manufactured by someone else.
Unless someone thinks that ammo manufacturers should (and are) inspecting brass for fully drilled flash holes

 

[Larry1945]

Yeah, I'll give Freedom Munitions a pass on this one; it's not their fault the case was defective.

And that case is most definitely from IMI. Maybe you can't see it clearly in my earlier photo, but is clearly stamped IMI with a small trademark or something on either side. Like this:

* I M I *

This round came from a 1,000-round purchase I made from Freedom about a year ago. Sorry RGV, but it is definitely a new round that came to me directly from Freedom Munitions...

 

[Flyingfool]

To oink and BC38...the box that round came from is labeled "NEW" - how could Freedom Munitions call their ammo NEW if they're using reloaded cases? What part of NEW am I not understanding?

Is it possible that freedom buys brass in bulk from anyone who has the cheapest price. So they bought brass from IMI in this instance?

It would be reasonable that IMI would make NATO rounds.

Assuming Freedom bought bulk brass, would the brass come with primers already installed, or would freedom also buy bulk lrimers and install the primers as part of the ammo manufacturing process?

In either situation, it is absolutely clear that this was a primer failure from whoever manufactured the PRIMER! Period!

 

[BC38]

Is it possible that freedom buys brass in bulk from anyone who has the cheapest price. So they bought brass from IMI in this instance?

It would be reasonable that IMI would make NATO rounds.

Assuming Freedom bought bulk brass, would the brass come with primers already installed, or would freedom also buy bulk lrimers and install the primers as part of the ammo manufacturing process?

In either situation, it is absolutely clear that this was a primer failure from whoever manufactured the PRIMER! Period!

You might want to re-read posts 81 and 84 above.
It was a piece of defective brass that caused the issue.

 

[Funflyer]

And that case is most definitely from IMI. Maybe you can't see it clearly in my earlier photo, but is clearly stamped IMI with a small trademark or something on either side. Like this:

* I M I *

No, that case is clearly marked "IMT", not "IMI". I'm not an expert but, since new to reloading I've been researching for weeks and have brass on the brain. So, what I do know is that IMI (Isreal Military Industries) is good stuff. IMT is Turkish, and considered **** by most reloaders. That step inside the case reduces its volume by 9% and one reason most toss it in the scrap bin.

 

[oink]

Larry1945,

Thanks for the autopsy report. Mystery solved! Clearly a defective casing.

Things have obviously changed with IMI. In the past it was kind of rare to see IMI brass on the range and it was usually from someone who had gotten hold of some surplus ammo. It appears they sell lots of their brass in all kinds of flavors now days. Good for them.

 

[TTSH]

No, that case is clearly marked "IMT", not "IMI". I'm not an expert but, since new to reloading I've been researching for weeks and have brass on the brain. So, what I do know is that IMI (Isreal Military Industries) is good stuff. IMT is Turkish, and considered **** by most reloaders. That step inside the case reduces its volume by 9% and one reason most toss it in the scrap bin.

Good catch!

 

[oink]

Yeah, good catch. I wasn't familiar with the IMT brand but according to a little google search it's not well thought of. It also appears Freedom has been using it for a good while.

 

[Larry1945]

Wow, good catch is right. I put that round under good light with a magnifying glass and sure enough, the stamp says "IMT." I Googled it and right away found some negative discussions regarding Freedom Munitions and IMT brass.

I take back my free pass to Freedom Munitions; they can use whatever brass they want but they're not getting any more business from me...

 

[thewittmp]

I'm not a reloader, but zooming into the image and adjusting contrast, could that be the face of the primer, and not the base of the shell?

 

[Larry1945]

I dunno, it looks just like the rest of the brass inside that case to me. Doesn't a primer have some kind of open bottom to allow the flash to go through the flash hole and into the case? All I see here is a bulge in the brass where the hole should be, which you would expect if the primer fired and the flash had nowhere to go. That's what happened with this round - with no flash hole in the case, the primer's attempt to fire resulted in a tremendous amount of backflow pressure that expanded the case. The end result was a jammed gun that took a few hard blows with a nylon hammer to clear...

 

[Funflyer]

That's certainly odd looking. None of the primers I have, Winchester, CCI and Remington, look anything like that on the flash hole side. Now, take a look at this link about an issue with Freedom Munitions from a while back, specifically the picture of the primer. It appears to be silver on the outside and brass where it makes its turn into the primer pocket. Maybe a hybrid primer of sorts?
Product Issue: Freedom Munitions 124-grain 9mm FMJ – Handgun Planet

 

[Sevens]

Hahahaha at the linked reviews. The first review makes all kinds of notes that share the idea that the author "feels bad" for his 4-year old honest review and pushes links to a 2-year old follow-up review, both are laced with apologies and excuses and that last entry with the 2-year old positive review thanks Freedom for the "ammunition sample" they sent so he could review it.

At this point, anyone who reads any of the real experiences with Freedom Munitions, including this one and any of the dozen I have posted in and STILL makes excuses for this ammo and still trots out their "well all the stuff I bought went bang" and they still think this stuff is a fine buy and a good risk?

Well they absolutely deserve what they get.

Some good deals are better than others and there ain't no free lunch. For the good of shooters, bystanders and guns, I hope all the Freedom Munitions "after action reports" are all historical conversion and SOON. The sooner these guys turn the lights off for the last time, the better.

Meanwhile, for the true believers, please, buy all you can.

 

[Rastoff]

Thanks Rastoff, that confirms it.

Alas, it does not.

Rather than a hole like I see in your cases, this one just has an indentation where a punch or drill hit it but didn't penetrate the brass. And unlike yours, this case is very clean indicating that it is indeed a new case (see attached thumbnail photo).

First off the cleanliness is irrelevant. Cases can be cleaned. My picture is of fired casings that haven't been cleaned yet. Once they are cleaned, they look new, sometimes even better than new. There is definitely a flash hole in that case as thewittmp has shown. It does seem to be blocked though.

I have another theory...

Here is what an unfired primer looks like from the business end:

That pinwheel shaped thing is the anvil.

The way a primer works is the back of the primer is crushed/dented by the firing pin. As the primer case crushes, the primer explosive is sandwiched between the back of the case and the anvil. It's being sandwiched, sharply, that makes the primer explode. Without the anvil the primer would never fire.

Here's a pretty good vid of how the cartridge works (go to 1:35 to see the action):
YouTube

I have seen the anvil fall out of primers before. It's possible that the anvil got turned around in the round you had and plugged the flash hole in the case. That seems unlikely, but it can happen.

What we really need now is to push that primer out and see what it looks like out of the case.

 

[Larry1945]

Well Rastoff, that may be a valid theory, but we're never gonna know for sure. I put that case inside a 7/16" socket, placed the socket on a 2x4 and went at the "hole" with a hammer and punch. I couldn't get through it. The case is now mutilated, and even after the beating it took there is still no flash hole and the primer hasn't budged. All there is where that hole should be is mangled brass from the punch trying to get through it. I don't have a sledgehammer, but I beat on it relentlessly with a heavy claw hammer to no avail.

I'm going to write this off as a defective case with no flash hole and leave it at that. I know now what caused my gun to jam; to go any further would only serve to satisfy a curiosity that I don't have. If anyone wants that beat up case, you're welcome to it.

Thanks again everyone; this was great fun but it's time to move on...

 

[federali]

I have seen an occasional factory load where a portion of the case mouth folded back on itself causing a slight bulge. This round will partially chamber but usually then gets wedged and can't be extracted.

One method I've used is as follows: drill a hole in a piece of 2X4 large enough to clear the exterior diameter of the barrel. Align the barrel over this drilled hole, then press hard on the gun to push the slide back. I've only done this a few times but it works every time.

 

[Rastoff]

Yeah, it's all good Larry1945, stuff happens. I'm not convinced that even if we got the primer out we would be any smarter about this. It's enough to know that no one got hurt, the gun is fine and you're still happy with the gun.

 

[KLR]

The Shield being DAO has repeat strike capblity because the trigger cocks the striker and lets it go.

I don't believe that is correct. Could you be talking about the .380 EZ? I know it is hammer vs. striker - haven't played around with it enough to know one way or the other.