I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry today

[eb07]

Follow up:

She ordered her handgun and texted me how excited she is to go shoot it and how she wants my wife to join her.

She also thanked me for making her feel comfortable. Apparently she tried this before a few years back and was pushed into firearms she wasn't comfortable with at the local rental range by the local instructor who is ex Leo even after she protested and ended up dropping the subject for a few years and never going back.

Baby steps but I believe I transformed yet another middle aged non gun owner into owning one. Third one in 2018. Second female. The last one chose the ruger lcp 2 and has since graduated to a Glock 19 in four short months. Another friend of my wife.

Again not all people's minds and bodies are created equal and not everyone needs to be a tactical tommy to survive. This was the first time in many years I ever recommended such a small caliber. From the texts and interest she is showing to include understanding the shortcomings of the small round, I know I went the right direction with this regardless of the naysayers.

Firearm ownership is a right and a choice and should not be dissuaded or forced on anyone because of what someone else thinks of as right. The mind sometimes is as big of a limitation as physical handicap and sometimes different routes need to be taken to achieve the end result.

I have never met a man or woman alive who claimed: "22lr is a weak round for self defense, let me go down range and prove it to you. "

At any rate thanks for all the comments even if I do disagree with some of them. Valid points for a large percentage of people but not for all. That is closed minded thinking in my opinion.

 

[TomkinsSP]

JMO, the platform matters more to me than the caliber. So being comfortable with a M640, most of that comfort would translate to a .32 H&R M34, a .22 WMR M351c or a .22 LR M43c (with Aguila SSS). I would likely prefer those to a different platform in a larger caliber.

Rule One, have a gun.

 

[Lightfoot4]

A .22 is no doubt better than nothing...

While I understand why you wrote all the other stuff, THIS is the key take away that aligns with why the original poster went with the .22 caliber. Some people aren't going to research anything, or train, or do any of the stuff they should do. For some, it really is the .22 or nothing. And we all know the .22 is better than that nothing. I'd do all I can to convince them otherwise, but in the end it's their choice. It might not be a logical choice, but it's still their choice. As long as they have something, it's better than nothing.

 

[Mister X]

Well now, that just tells it all, don't it.


Another goes on the growing list of...well ya know.




.

I teach the skills that are more important than what you'll receive in the typical defensive shooting class. That may be difficult for some to comprehend, but it is what it is.

 

[686-380]

Fantastic!

Follow up:

She ordered her handgun and texted me how excited she is to go shoot it and how she wants my wife to join her.

She also thanked me for making her feel comfortable. Apparently she tried this before a few years back and was pushed into firearms she wasn't comfortable with at the local rental range by the local instructor who is ex Leo even after she protested and ended up dropping the subject for a few years and never going back.

Baby steps but I believe I transformed yet another middle aged non gun owner into owning one. Third one in 2018. Second female. The last one chose the ruger lcp 2 and has since graduated to a Glock 19 in four short months. Another friend of my wife.

Again not all people's minds and bodies are created equal and not everyone needs to be a tactical tommy to survive. This was the first time in many years I ever recommended such a small caliber. From the texts and interest she is showing to include understanding the shortcomings of the small round, I know I went the right direction with this regardless of the naysayers.

Firearm ownership is a right and a choice and should not be dissuaded or forced on anyone because of what someone else thinks of as right. The mind sometimes is as big of a limitation as physical handicap and sometimes different routes need to be taken to achieve the end result.

I have never met a man or woman alive who claimed: "22lr is a weak round for self defense, let me go down range and prove it to you. "

At any rate thanks for all the comments even if I do disagree with some of them. Valid points for a large percentage of people but not for all. That is closed minded thinking in my opinion.

Keep up the great work

There has been a lot of good points in this thread (caliber-wise). Please follow up with her in a year or so. I'd be interested where this rabbit hole leads her!

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Fellow septuagenarians may recall an interesting story about the use of a C*** Woodsman by a South African woman during the Mau-Mau uprising. It probably relates to this thread.

 

[Mister X]

Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

 

[eb07]

Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

I agree with you...

From the article

The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need.

More from the article:


She knew exactly what she wanted and made a choice.

Thanks!

 

[Ziggy2525]

Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

Didn't the OP do exactly what your linked article recommend? The friend of the OP's wife had been to a gun store where they tried to force her to a particular type pistol. The OP let his wife's friend try different pistols. He let her pick the one she wanted to work with. He let her be in control of the decision.

ETA - Quote from the article... "The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need." -- Telling them they need a .38 Special is no different than telling them they need a .22.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Vegan by proxy.

Like . . . . . . .

 

[CalmerThanYou]

Not every one has the time, access to training or physical ability to master the Phoenix Eye or feared Leopard Paw.
Not every one is cut out to EDC a 1911
Some folks may not be qualified to drive a Mclaren 675LT Spider.
She may not be down with mastering the latest and greatest tactical training.
One thing for sure, is she got honest, unbiased exposure to multiple choices and selected the one she could employ now. She may like it so much she decides to get training to move up the caliber ladder.
One more responsible armed citizen seems like a win to me.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I've never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .

Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Had a little technical difficulty with my penultimate (now antepenultimate) post. What disappeared was that I strongly approve of eb07's course of action, and the end result. However, I also appreciate Mister X's contributions, and believe that they should be carefully considered, as I believe eb07 effectively did. The fact (IMO) that eb07 came to the right conclusion at the right time does not even conflict with, much less subtract from, what Mister X has been asking everyone to consider.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I picked up one of these for the grandsons to shoot...


I could use it to defend myself if that's what was handy at the time.


No worries

Browning 1911 22 LR Compact

I also like this ammunition, 40 gr HP 1435 FPS

.

Hey buddy, do you need another grandson?

 

[Mister X]

Didn't the OP do exactly what your linked article recommend? The friend of the OP's wife had been to a gun store where they tried to force her to a particular type pistol. The OP let his wife's friend try different pistols. He let her pick the one she wanted to work with. He let her be in control of the decision.

ETA - Quote from the article... "The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need." -- Telling them they need a .38 Special is no different than telling them they need a .22.

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

 

[eb07]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

You don't learn to run before you learn to walk. You would think a self proclaimed self defense expert would know this basic building block of life. I am truly starting to believe you are a legend in your own mind and have no clue what you are talking about.

Next you will start challenging people to a duel

 

[Ziggy2525]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

Fair enough, but don't you have your own set of biases and preconceptions that always end up with a centennial revolver as the solution?

 

[roscoepc]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

So..... Exactly how/what was the OP supposed to do to familiarize this lady with a gun she was comfortable with?? I mean,, you've picked apart everything he has done as wrong but offered NO solutions to what you consider as problems??

And don't even say the first mistake was the caliber she chose.. Don't EVEN go there!! A .22LR CCI MiniMag is more than enough if the shooter unloads a full mag or cylinder, IF they hit center mass!!

So... Enlighten me... I'm all Eye's.... But Please.. No long Bloviations that don't really say anything. You've done enough of that....

 

[sigp220.45]

I've never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .

.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.

 

[Muss Muggins]

.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.

Potentially the post of the month . . .

(Edit: Ayoob is a member. Awaiting his reply)