M&P 38 Post War? (updated in post #31)

[Masterbuck54]

Here is the other revolver that I picked up yesterday that appears to be original nickle finish (N stamped on the left side grip frame).

Serial # S875173.

It looks like the side plate screws have been changed out at some time as well.

Finish challenged as well.

Came with later SQ butt Magnas.

Question I have is what I'm reading is that "Post War" guns should have the 4 line address.

This has the one line address.

So is it a leftover 4th Model 1905 frame stamped with a S prefix serial #?

Also what type of stocks would have shipped on this?

Also value of gun after a good cleaning and some Flitz?

Thanks in advance on all info.

Masterbuck54

 

[Absalom]

Here is the other revolver that I picked up yesterday that appears to be original nickle finish (N stamped on the left side grip frame).

Serial # S875173.
......
Came with later SQ butt Magnas.

Question I have is what I'm reading is that "Post War" guns should have the 4 line address.

This has the one line address.

So is it a leftover 4th Model 1905 frame stamped with a S prefix serial #?

Also what type of stocks would have shipped on this?
....

No leftovers

The single line was not replaced by the four-line until 1948.

The gun would have shipped with sharp-shoulder diamond magnas.

PS: Have you checked the "later" square butt magnas that were on it for the stamped serial? (Right panel)

 

[tenntex32]

The S serial number prefix would tell us this is a post WWII example made immediately after the V or VS prefixed Victory examples.

Can you post a good pic of the butt prefix and serial number?

And as Absalom stated...……..be sure to verify the serial number on the back of the R/H grip as you might get lucky!

Here's how my all matching post war s/n S883038 came dressed.

Dale

 

[Absalom]

Like Dale's specimen, yours has the flush knurled ejector rod tip, not the barrel-shaped knob. Together with the serial, that places it in the earlier months of 1947, when that change occurred in the S-series. I hope Jack will be by to confirm this and make it more precise.

 

[Masterbuck54]

photos requested

Here's photo of the serial.

And the photo of the unnumbered grips

Is the 5" version a common one?

Thanks

Masterbuck54

 

[Absalom]

Yep, those stocks are indeed later, post-1968. I think the 5" and 6" are not as common as the 4" in that timeframe, but not unusual.

 

[DWalt]

Your grips are not original and no older than about 1969, and are of the so-called "PC" style used from the early 1950s onward on fixed-sight K-frame revolvers. Original grips would have large diamonds around the screw holes, also the sharper cornered area at the top. Normally referred to as the "Sharp Shoulder" style. Newer ones were more rounded in that area (see picture of the correct sharp shoulder style below). S875173 probably shipped in early 1947, and the single line MADE IN U.S.A. frame stamping would be correct. The 4-line address did not appear until around mid-1948. Sideplate screws should have nickeled heads, but I wouldn't worry about replacing them.

"So is it a leftover 4th Model 1905 frame stamped with a S prefix serial #?"
S&W stopped using the "Model of 1905" nomenclature prior to WWI. Yours would be more correctly described as being a postwar M&P. Yours also has the improved hammer drop safety which was not used on M&Ps made prior to 1945. That is what the "S" SN prefix means.

 

[Targets Guy]

S8700xx ( a 4" barrel) shipped 1/47.

S8723xx shipped 2/47

S8813xx (a 4" nickle) shipped 4/47

 

[tenntex32]

Here's photo of the serial.

And the photo of the unnumbered grips

Is the 5" version a common one?

Thanks

Masterbuck54

I've had a couple of "S" prefix 5" versions over the years, so if I owned them then it's doubtful they were all that rare! (They were very inexpensive when I purchased them and I sold them when I decided to focus moreso on the 4" Victory for my .38spl caliber revolvers.)

That being said I would love to add a nice/correct 4" VS pre-fixed example to my Victory collection.

Dale

 

[jmace57]

I have see a number of 5" s-serial number models. But I'll be honest, it's the first factory nickel one I have seen!

 

[JP@AK]

Question I have is what I'm reading is that "Post War" guns should have the 4 line address.

This has the one line address.

I have never found an S prefix gun with the four line address. Even early C prefix M&Ps did not have it.

So is it a leftover 4th Model 1905 frame stamped with a S prefix serial #?

No. It is of postwar production. Probably shipped in February, 1947.

Also what type of stocks would have shipped on this?

Already answered by others . . .

Also value of gun after a good cleaning and some Flitz?

In that condition, $250, maybe $300. Pretty rough. If the nickel were in better shape, it would command a slight premium, since nickel examples are much less common than blued.

Is the 5" version a common one?

Very. Second only to the 4". 6" is the least common, if you group the 2" guns all together (RB and SB).

I hope these responses are helpful.

 

[JP@AK]

That being said I would love to add a nice/correct 4" VS pre-fixed example to my Victory collection.

Dale
You've used that term twice now in this thread. Let me clear something up for you. There were no "VS" revolvers. One and only one has been discovered and it is clearly a mis-mark. The prefix was always SV. The single known example of "VS" is so obviously a screwup by the fitter that I hope to convince Jim to change the way it is presented in the next edition of the SCSW. Too many people are inadvertently led astray by what is currently stated there.

 

[JP@AK]

But I'll be honest, it's the first factory nickel one I have seen!

They are out there, but they are not common. I show some in my database, but I have yet to acquire a nice one. It is the only variant I don't yet have in my collection, but I'll get one eventually.

 

[DWalt]

Yes, the "S" was added in front of the V-prefix in very early 1945 to indicate the presence of the improved hammer block safety on the Victory models. All Victory models (V and SV SN prefixes) were manufactured only during the war years, although some SV-series revolvers assembled from from surplus components remaining in S&W inventory after the war's end were sold on the civilian market in early 1946.

About 3 years ago years ago I did see an original (N-stamped) nickeled S-series M&P. I don't remember the barrel length, but I think it was 4". And it was in very good condition. I thought it was somewhat unusual at the time but didn't think too much about it.

 

[tenntex32]

VS, SV...………..

You say taters and I say tots. S added before the V or S added after the V......I just want one added on a wartime revolver and/or the immediate postwar leftover Victory V-prefixed serial numbered frames with the S added.

If SV makes you happy then SV it is! (But you did say there is at least one VS out there...…..yes?)

I guess other websites get it backwards sometimes too...…..(from coolgunsite which I looked at from time to time over the years before becoming a member here.)

"Serial numbers for the .38 special Victory model began at about V1 in early 1942 and ran until VS811119 with a date of late August of 1945 (end of production)."

http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/sw_sv774890/Victory Model SV SN.htm

Funny enough they clearly showed a revolver with a SV prefix, and the factory letter provided clearly shows it as an SV prefixed serial number.

I'll try to do better next time...…….

Dale

 

[JP@AK]

Not a matter of me being happy. I have other sources for that - wife of 49 years, 25 grandkids, 1 greatgrandson, etc.

It was more about helping you know more about the period. Sorry if it was offensive.

 

[tenntex32]

Not a matter of me being happy. I have other sources for that - wife of 49 years, 25 grandkids, 1 greatgrandson, etc.

It was more about helping you know more about the period. Sorry if it was offensive.

No offense taken, as I had seen it stated either way over the years. (However incorrect other sources may have been in stating it that way.)

Now if I had said that in no uncertain terms would you ever find a VS prefix marked example you goobers would have come up with a thousand VS marked examples just to prove me wrong!

Just how my luck goes sometimes. (Now I'll quietly shuffle off, head hung low, to the stool over in the corner and put my dunce hat on for the remainder of the day.)

Thanks for the knowledgeable insight,
Dale

 

[DWalt]

There is some concern about the correctness of a sole VS-marked gun, and that has been discussed here several times previously and remains unresolved. A SV prefix is definitely correct, but we don't know if the single VS prefix which allegedly exists is.

 

[tenntex32]

There is some concern about the correctness of a sole VS-marked gun, and that has been discussed here several times previously and remains unresolved. A SV prefix is definitely correct, but we don't know if the single VS prefix which allegedly exists is.

Yeah I seemed to have stepped in the proverbial fire ant mound with this one. I didn't know there was just one single controversial VS marked example floating around that was the topic of great discussion.

Never mind me and back to the scheduled programming. (You goobers had better hope I never run across a VS prefixed example though!!!!!!!)

Taking my lumps,
Dale

 

[ordnanceguy]

....I hope to convince Jim to change the way it is presented in the next edition of the SCSW. Too many people are inadvertently led astray by what is currently stated there.

Hi Jack:

Once something is stated as fact, it is hard to kill it even when later evidence surfaces that is pretty much irrefutable.

I think the VS near-myth probably had its genesis back in 1966 when the first edition of Neal & Jinks' "Smith & Wesson 1857-1945" was published. In there it was stated at p. 141: "By December 1944, serial numbers in this series had reached about V-800,000. At this time an improved type of hammer block was installed and the serial prefix was changed from V to VS to so indicate....When the model was discontinued in 1945 serial numbers had reached about VS-850000."

This was a simple to make error, perhaps made in editing. Nonetheless, it took on a life of its own and for many years the near-myth of the VS serial prefix persisted. I say "near myth" because there are at least two such guns. So, while they exist they are not in the mainstream and today it is known that the SV prefix is the proper appellation.