1917 Holster Verdigris, Verdi Grease! What Is It?

[keithpip]

A few weeks ago I had posted a request asking if anyone had a pattern for the 1917 3/4 flap holster. No one had the pattern but to my pleasant surprise I received an actual 1917 holster courtesy of Nesmith. Thank you Nesmith for you generosity! I intend to disassemble the holster and make patterns for each of the holster components. It should be an interesting project. Anyway I was doing a detailed inspection of the holster taking measurements etc before taking it apart. The first thing I noticed was an incredible amount of verdigris that had formed around the brass rivets and the back of the flap stud. There was so much corrosion around one rivet that when I started to clean off the verdigris it actually fell out. You can see it among the green stuff on my work bench. The back side of the brass flap stud was another surprise. The verdigris was so heavy I couldn't see the stud at all. It was completely covered in this waxy compound. The only time I've seen verdigris on one of my own holsters was a light film around the brass hardware on a Bianchi flap holster for my Ruger .22 Single Six. That holster is about 35 years old. After seeing first hand what this stuff can do I'll be more diligent in the future about cleaning it off. All in all this holster is in great shape for being 102 years old. It's only slightly older than my mother in law who is 99 and will be 100 this June! They're both in great shape for their age! I'll post updates as this project moves along.

Keith

 

[turnerriver]

I run a verdigris farm here although the yield off that holster you show is impressive. I scrape it off with dental picks and I try to examine each piece in my collection yearly if not more often. As you found out it will remove rivets and play general havoc if allowed to accumulate. Keep us in the loop on your project, I appreciate you posting this.
Regards
turnerriver

 

[AZretired]

Verdigris is the oxidation caused by leather & brass/copper. and yes it will eventually eat up brass or copper hardware that is in contact with leather. It's worse in the more humid area and less prevalent in the dry southwest. When I see it starting I just use a Q-tip dipped in alcohol to clean it.

 

[rednichols]

Impressive! I reckon there should be a prize for 'most verdigris in a leading role'. And you would win it. A verdigris covered leather and brass trophy, I suppose .

One finds it most often, on brown holsters that have been oiled (typically neatsfoot oil to protect the leather from water). Less commonly on black holsters. Much less.

S/s snaps would be the solution for such a maker today, as used on marine applications; though I expect the Army still specifies brass with black oxide (vs carbon steel with same).

 

[series guy]

Ballistol will prevent that.

 

[Nesmith]

I cleaned off a lot of the build-up before I shipped it. I was afraid that I might have to pay HazMat fees!

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Best method I have found is a bit of club soda and a soft brush.

By the way, that M1917 holster is a very desirable and collectible antique. Are you sure you want to dissect it to create a pattern?

 

[keithpip]

1917 Holster Deconstruction

Lobo: I hear what you're saying. For a while I wasn't sure I wanted to take this holster apart. What decided me was the fact that the holster is missing its toe plug. Someone had cut it out at some point in its long life. That and the fact that it's missing one of its rivets means it's not in its original condition. I don't think I could do it to a specimen in pristine condition, that wouldn't make sense. BTW, I intend to reassemble the holster once all the patterns are made. It won't be original, I'll have to replace all the brass rivets with contemporary rivets, new stitching and of course a replacement toe plug. But it's not all original now. Once the project is completed I'll make the pattern available for anyone here who requests it.

Keith

 

[rednichols]

Lobo: I hear what you're saying. For a while I wasn't sure I wanted to take this holster apart. What decided me was the fact that the holster is missing its toe plug. Someone had cut it out at some point in its long life. That and the fact that it's missing one of its rivets means it's not in its original condition. I don't think I could do it to a specimen in pristine condition, that wouldn't make sense. BTW, I intend to reassemble the holster once all the patterns are made. It won't be original, I'll have to replace all the brass rivets with contemporary rivets, new stitching and of course a replacement toe plug. But it's not all original now. Once the project is completed I'll make the pattern available for anyone here who requests it.

Keith

Consider the possibility of gifting a copy of the patterns to others. I do it this way usually, with the grid allowing one to take it to a Kinko's and have them scale it precisely onto a copy; then spray glue the copy to cardboard and cut out the pattern to original size:



The next batch to go out, though, is different. They are 100 'provenance patterns' so have cardboard affixed to the original leather pieces; so are quite heavy. And so many of them that I wasn't willing to photo them all. And original hardware to match. A total of 50 pounds of provenance patterns and original hardware to build . . . 1950s-era capgun holster sets, sent along to a chap in USA who builds reproduction sets (and is even better than I at that; which I did in the Noughties because I couldn't get blue guns imported here during that decade; full gun license required). Postal alone is U$150.

All this has sat, little-used, all this time. I'm happy to get them back into circulation.

 

[tenntex32]

Yup, I have seen it in many varying degrees on my various WWI M1917 and WWII Victory holsters.

At first I was afraid to remove it for fear of devaluing the collectability of the original holsters, but the more I researched it the more I felt the need to remove it due to further damage occurring.

Dale

 

[BC38]

Lobo: I hear what you're saying. For a while I wasn't sure I wanted to take this holster apart. What decided me was the fact that the holster is missing its toe plug. Someone had cut it out at some point in its long life. That and the fact that it's missing one of its rivets means it's not in its original condition. I don't think I could do it to a specimen in pristine condition, that wouldn't make sense. BTW, I intend to reassemble the holster once all the patterns are made. It won't be original, I'll have to replace all the brass rivets with contemporary rivets, new stitching and of course a replacement toe plug. But it's not all original now. Once the project is completed I'll make the pattern available for anyone here who requests it.

Keith

I'll pony up for one of those patterns. I'd love to make a vintage style repro holster for my old 1917.

 

[Stevens]

Verdegris
Here in South Louisiana it is common. I think the humidity retained in the leather and maybe leather tanning chemicals make it even worse on holsters. I clean it off and add a bit of grease, not sure if that helps much.
Steve W

 

[Ky Cowboy]

Ballistol, I'm going to try that on some cartridge loops, having trouble finding nickel cases in all calibers !! Plus I have a WW1 set of saddle bags that are showing some green deposits around the rivets and studs.

 

[jimmyj]

The "Green Stuff" is the reason the Army began using canvas ammo belts in the 1870s. IIRC (?) some of Custer's troops could not pull cartridges from the leather loops of their belts at the LBH because of the "Green Stuff".

 

[Drm50]

My 1911 GI holster is over 50yrs old. The green goo started on it back then and keeps coming back. This past year has been so damp and humid here in Ohio I have mildew problems I never had before.

 

[Alk8944]

Pacific Canvas and Leather makes quite good replica holsters of many styles, including the US M-1917. The cost is only $44.95. What is your purpose for wanting a pattern, to make a copy for your own use, or to manufacture replica holsters for sale? Either way, wouldn't it be more practical to simply purchase one of the Pacific Canvas holsters instead of dismantling a piece of history simply as a pattern? Possibly you are not aware of Pacific Canvas and Leather products. Here is a link to their M-1917 holster:


1917 Holster RH US Tan – Pacific Canvas and Leather

 

[Alk8944]

The "Green Stuff" is the reason the Army began using canvas ammo belts in the 1870s. IIRC (?) some of Custer's troops could not pull cartridges from the leather loops of their belts at the LBH because of the "Green Stuff".

Jimmy,

The Army did not carry ammunition in loops on belts, they used cartridge boxes worn on the belt. The one in use at the time of the Custer fiasco was known as the McKeever Box. Pacific Canvas and Leather also sells good copies of this item. Here ia a link to the page: MCKeever 45/70 US Black – Pacific Canvas and Leather Note that the loops in the McKeever Box were canvas, not leather!

The issue they had is the cartridge cases of the day were, although being center-fire, were constructed of Copper, not brass, and made similar to a modern rim-fire cartridge case. The Copper cases were barely adequate to contain the pressure they had to. When the Model 1873 carbines became powder-fouled and and heated from firing the Copper cases would stick in the chambers and the extractor simply tear through the rim leaving the case firmly stuck in the chamber. This would effectively put the gun out of commission.

Just a little firearms history lesson for you.

 

[Bob L]

Best method I have found is a bit of club soda and a soft brush.

So dip a toothbrush in club soda and clean the area and then air dry?

 

[DevilDog72]

I use a dry tooth brush first then saddle soap. If you use liquid on it before scrubbing it off with a dry tooth brush it will leave a dark ring behind.

 

[crazyphil]

Not a lot of humidity here and I keep my holsters hanging where they get
good circulation, so I don't have much trouble with verdigris. Sometimes
it comes with a pre-owned holster. I just cleaned one up this morning.
Used a small nail to scrape the stuff off. Didn't have any grease, so I
used triple anti-biotic salve. That should kill those little green b-------.