SWHF Search Provides no clues on mystery gun

[Thinnes]

Well, I sent a letter to SWHF. All Bill found was a shipping receipt confirming the factory letter. Here's the gun:

Transitional 357 magnum
8.75 inch barrel
SN 71486
Numbers matching, incl grips
King gold disc front sight w mirror base
Micro click rear sight
Grooved hammer and trigger
Magna silver medallion grips
Safety hammer block w notched hammer
Ship date: Jan 19, 1948
Shipped to: Air Force Technical Base Service Area, Osborn, Ohio

Interestingly, the price of a 357 mag only went up 62 cents from 1935 to 1948. This was a single gun order. Some one in the Air Force really wanted a magnum. The gun shipped 11 days before Harry S Truman and his aide were presented theirs. Roy found a copy of the Truman invoice. See 1st page of "ask Roy Jinks" section of the forum. Very cool.

Jim F tracks the transitional magnums and has documented approx 20 of the 142 that shipped. Roy says he has lettered 24 of them.

So anyway, now what? Did the military keep records of every gun on base, even those acquired personally? Was it registered on base? Is there a company clerk I can write to ( ala Radar O'Reilly)? Could this be property of the Air Force? Did anyone serve there? Can you AF gents help with any info or ideas?

I'm still hoping Chuck Yeager was stationed there and this is his gun. Or, as suggested by SW UCLA, it was used by the AF in Area 51 to shoot down alien craft.

Has anyone seen another post-war gun with an 8.75" barrel?

Thanks Dave

 

[Absalom]

Actually, the SWHF document provides a crucial clue.

All the letter told you was the "Shipped to ... ". The invoice shows that the gun was actually sold to the US government, in this case represented by the Transportation Officer of the AF base. This was an official military purchase, not anybody's private gun.

Of course, you still have to figure out for what exotic purpose the Air Force thought it might need ONE long-barreled magnum revolver

PS: Have you checked the address? Just in case you haven't, Osborn means Wright-Patterson AFB. Big place to look
But they do have a big Air Force museum. Maybe you should try contacting them.

 

[jebstuart]

I'm betting on A-Triple A (Anti-Alien Aircraft Artillery). Like Captain Renault, "Its the romantic in me".

 

[steelslaver]

Retirement presentation.

 

[Doc44]

Post-WW II records consist only of invoices as all correspondence, including orders, etc. were destroyed. Even on pre-war guns, unless there is correspondence from an owner or a return for service record, S&W's records do not include anything beyond their shipping invoice (as would be expected).

Bill

 

[murphydog]

The town of Osborn, OH no longer exists, but it did in 1947:

Osborn, Ohio - Wikipedia

I would guess that unless the seller bought or knows the history of the gun that it is unlikely to ever be discovered. Sorry.

But you have a beautiful, rare postwar Transitional Magnum. Not sorry.

 

[rct269]

Rather than firing off a bunch of questions, each one more fanciful than the last; let's suppose some answers which if nothing else will eliminate a blind alley or two.

How about that price (of $60.62)---what's that all about? Let's suppose that familiar $60 is (still) the price of the gun----and the $.62 is for the shipping. And as long as we're talking about dollars and cents, how much is the excise (or whatever) tax the Air Force wouldn't pay if they were the purchaser of the gun? Now that's a pretty much rhetorical question, but I think we can look elsewhere for a likely buyer---like isn't it likely a firearm would be shipped to an official recipient at the base for ultimate delivery to an individual on the base---rather than direct to that individual? And if it is likely, then there's a record of the entirety of such a transaction----and it still exists. The government never throws anything like that away. I mean they'll leave billions of dollars of perfectly good military equipment on a sand dune somewhere rather than ship it back here, but they'll also spend billions of dollars building buildings to store records in---records nobody gives a rat's behind about---except us.

See how easy that was?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[red9]

All the letter told you was the "Shipped to ... ". The invoice shows that the gun was actually sold to the US government, in this case represented by the Transportation Officer of the AF base. This was an official military purchase, not anybody's private gun.

I am a little (okay, a lot) rusty on taxation, but would excise tax been charged on a government purchase?

Bob

 

[Doc44]

The order was charged eleven percent excise tax which was standard.

Bill

 

[H Richard]

I'm taking a guess that the official purchase by that AF base was for the base exchange, which in turn sold it to a person that had special ordered it. Whe I was in the AF I had special ordered several things, and they were shipped to the base and I them purchased from the base exchange, although I was the one that special ordered them.

 

[kwill1911]

Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine:

It was an individual purchase. The "Transportation Office(r)" is in charge of household goods and personal property of personnel being moved. Bldg 258 is the base post office.

Also: The Air Force (and other branches of the military) destroys property all the time. There are quite a few threads with examples of crushed or torched Air Force guns. No USG organization is required to keep records forever, especially for purchases under $3,000.

It is a quite interesting gun on its own merits. The connection to the USAF adds to the interest.

 

[Art Doc]

Not an expert but this ^^^^^^ (H's post) sounds logical. An individual stationed on base ordered the revolver through the PX and S&W sold it to and shipped it to the PX which in turn transferred it to the individual.

Does it have an RM barrel with the front sight set back from the muzzle?

Great piece.

 

[Doc44]

I am sure the .357 was ordered for an individual. I have seen many invoices to the Cadet Store at West Point showing a .357 Magnum or .357 Combat Magnum ordered for a Cadet who is also identified on the invoice. Excise tax was also charged on all of these orders.

Bill

 

[mtgianni]

I have not seen a post war 8.75" barrel but a facebook page shows Doug Wesson with a trophy and what appears to be an 8" bbl.

This photo of Doug Wesson was first... - Smith & Wesson Corp. | Facebook
I could open this without a log in.

 

[Absalom]

.....
It was an individual purchase. The "Transportation Office(r)" is in charge of household goods and personal property of personnel being moved. Bldg 258 is the base post office.

Kevin:
Only slightly veering off topic, if that is the case, how did the Transportation Officer end up with all those Commandos? I've always wondered about that.

 

[kwill1911]

My guess (and it is just that) is that a Port Transportation Officer has quite different duties and responsibilities from an AFB Transportation Officer, especially during wartime. I think that when the USAF was separated from the Army in 1947, the responsibility for moving war materiel and personnel went to the logistics command (and a logistics officer) while personal and household goods (and spouses) were handled by the transportation office.

 

[Thinnes]

Thanks guys for your interest. What's my next step? A letter to the Transportation Officer?
I'm thinking this was perhaps a presentation gift to a retiring or relocating officer. Maybe the base knew about it?

 

[Absalom]

Thanks guys for your interest. What's my next step? A letter to the Transportation Officer?
I'm thinking this was perhaps a presentation gift to a retiring or relocating officer. Maybe the base knew about it?

I think 1948 is too far back to expect anything from the current military bureaucracy, even if they were inclined to help. You need an Air Force or base historian who might know about old paper records.

I think my earlier suggestion to contact the Air Force museum at Wright-Patterson is the only thing that offers any hope.

You are in a way incredibly lucky that the gun shipped to the base that now houses the Air Force's greatest historical resources (along with the Smithsonian).

 

[kwill1911]

Unfortunately, I suspect you won't get much from the Air Force. I've gone down this path several times to get 0 from them. But, my suggestion is to file a FOIA request here: PAL Application

 

[quinn]

Here's an interest bit of AF history: In 1956 dad was transfered to theAir Force Academy in Colorado Springs. He was the Staff Judge Advocat (SJA) for the base. The academy was carved out of Colorado winderness--and, at the time very rural. Under the then AF regulations, a deer or other wild animal hit by an automobile could only be dispatched by the SJA. Air Police were not allowed to dischare their weapons in this situation. I cannot count how many nights dad was called out to dispatch wounded deer. He was not allowed to discharge a AP's weapon so he used his Colt 38 Super. I remember dad grousing about the middle of the night calls and his efforts to get the AF to change the regulation.

So maybe the SJA of Writght-Pat didn't have or didn't want to use his own handgun. I would imagine that the SJA couldn't obtain an apprpriate handgun from the AP, either.