New-to-me 1917/1937, opinions wanted
- Thread starter Jcon72
- Start date
"I've melted down a bunch of range brass and pure lead into ingots..."
You must have a really hot furnace.
You must have a really hot furnace.
"I've melted down a bunch of range brass and pure lead into ingots..."
You must have a really hot furnace.
Well, a turkey fryer burner with a cast iron Dutch oven works pretty well.
BTW, while the 230gr RN is the classic .45 ACP round, I recently picked up a large quantity of 200gr LRN bullets and was wondering if it might be better to use those so as not to pound on the old girl quite as heavily. I have several options for pistol powder on hand.
Jack Flash
Member
I wouldn't say they are not a collector's piece, it's just that locating one in a condition acceptable to a collector doesn't often happen.
These Brazilians, especially the ones in the First Group, saw hard use in rugged conditions. To add insult to injury, many of us speculate that when they were re-imported to the US, packaging and handling were deplorable.
These Brazilians, especially the ones in the First Group, saw hard use in rugged conditions. To add insult to injury, many of us speculate that when they were re-imported to the US, packaging and handling were deplorable.
What I meant was since this one in particular has been refinished, its collector value is much less than a nice one in original condition. Due to the common abuse/neglect that you mentioned, it's very surprising to me that someone was able to make it look as nice as it is without losing all stamps and rollmarks.
I was picking at you for stating you melted down "range BRASS" and pure lead.
Ray
Member
Mine, a 1946 second batch # 170673 a very close brother to Howe´s (just 90 serial numbers apart) , was thankfully left behind in some Brazilian Army depot and now gladly lives at my home.
As a curiosity it has no Smith&Wesson stamped on the right side of the barrel, everything else being correct and matching.
Regards, Ray
As a curiosity it has no Smith&Wesson stamped on the right side of the barrel, everything else being correct and matching.
Regards, Ray
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Green Frog
Member
Range brass can be rendered in a proper smelter and is good for casting al sorts of artsy-craftsy stuff. Ask the Indians and the Pakistanis for whom it's been a cottage industry for a few generations.
OK, no more thread drift. Go out and enjoy shooting that Brazilian!
Froggie
OK, no more thread drift. Go out and enjoy shooting that Brazilian!
Froggie
Jack Flash
Member
Ray
Member
Hi Jack I don´t know about IMBEL but this barrel appears to be original. As I learned from another collector these right side unmarked barrels were leftover from military contracts at the end of WWI.This one dates to 1919 and was probably assembled soon after 1945 for shippment to Brazil in 1946.We had some CBC corrosive primed ammo as well. They usually have a green coating on the bullet, and many will not fire due to faulty primers.
Regards, Ray
Regards, Ray
Daniel Howe
US Veteran
tenntex32
Member
As far as I have seen S&W made no effort to remove the inspector marks from the barrels, cylinders and frame/yoke areas when assembling commercial models and 1946 delivered Brazilian guns when utilizing leftover M1917 contract parts. Now of course the exterior U.S. M1917 military/model markings on the frame (if even present) were removed from commercial model and 1946 delivered guns.
It would only have U.S. military inspection stamps if assembled with "leftover" U.S. M1917 parts that were inspected/stamped prior to them ending manufacture for the WWI contract.
I have inspected numerous post WWI commercial models that had the military inspection stamps on some/all of the parts. Obviously they were assembled using leftover M1917 parts that had been inspected for WWI M1917 manufacture.
The same was done for the Brazilian M1917/1937 contract guns delivered in 1946. Ray's most excellent example shows the Eagle's head military inspector marks on the frame, cylinder, and barrel. All parts are serialized matching so the barrel is not a replacement and is original to the gun.
I need an excellent example such as Ray's from the 1946 shipment utilizing leftover/found U.S. M1917 contract parts. Did you hear that Ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here are the pics of Ray's Brazilian from the 1946 shipment. (Lucky dog.)
And yes, the grips are stamped matching...……………...and he even has the original box!
Dale
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I have no doubt that a serial number matching barrel is original.
Since all 1917 Army barrels are stamped "S.&W. D.A. 45" left side only, there's no SMITH & WESSON right side stamp. This includes the Post War Transitional models and the stamp didn't change until the short action version was introduced and stamped ".45 Model 1950" in 1951. However these can be found still stamped "S.&W. D.A. 45" on the right side.
Dale,
Wow, Ray's is an awesome example.
Especially with that serial #170673 is has to be a rd top frame.
Is this the box type he has for it? It's also the correct PW Transitional box:
Photo and gun credit: SRT
This one #170763 has smooth grips that with numbers stamped that match the gun.
This is the only S&W I own that does not have a letter. Not worth it since the price went up. It too is second shipment. I had another 1917 that I got a letter for and it said checkered grips with medallion. So I thinks they used both in the second shipment.
Daniel,
That's a beauty!!
Did your "other" 1917 referenced above, letter as a '46 contract gun?
And was it a rd or flat top version?
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All of these pre war contract Brazilians were shipped in 1938.
Jack Flash
Member
Sorry Ray, I see now you have a matching barrel. Not that there is anything really wrong with IMBEL barrels.
Give me a break guys, I did not have the benefit of seeing Ray's pictures. I interpreted his post to mean "everything matched except the barrel." I see that is not the case.
In fact, where did those pictures come from? Can someone teach me the super secret handshake to get this inside information?
Give me a break guys, I did not have the benefit of seeing Ray's pictures. I interpreted his post to mean "everything matched except the barrel." I see that is not the case.
In fact, where did those pictures come from? Can someone teach me the super secret handshake to get this inside information?
tenntex32
Member
Dale,
Wow, Ray's is an awesome example.
Especially with that serial #170673 is has to be a rd top frame.
Is this the box type he has for it? It's also the correct PW Transitional box:
Photo and gun credit: SRT
Hondo,
This should answer your box questions. I just had to have Ray send me the pics awhile back when he posted about his Brazilian M1917/1937 contract 1946 delivered example. And yes it has the rounded style rear sight cutout as one would expect for a true U.S. contract M1917 frame.
Jim, be sure to let me know if that beautiful post-WWII example ever needs a new home.
Enjoy,
Dale
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Thank you!
And yes I would expect the rd top strap and U shaped sight notch unless it's one of the ~2500 alleged flat top strap frames shipped in '46.
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