dbarlstock
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Is this caused by a defective hammer edge or the edge on the trigger? Thanks
Push off hammer
- Thread starter dbarlstock
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With out a loop to look, almost impossible to ascertain. Is this a K or N?
What era? Date. Some surfaces wear quicker than others, A new hammer and trigger may be in the horizon. Could be crud on the edge.
What era? Date. Some surfaces wear quicker than others, A new hammer and trigger may be in the horizon. Could be crud on the edge.
Could be either, or a combination. Check to see that the rebound spring is at OEM length. A cut or weak rebound spring can make the condition worse.
Since the recommended repair involves sharpening the bevel on the trigger, that edge is usually the culprit. Check out the FAQ's comments on this at the top of the page for more info.
If there is no collateral damage, it's usually a very simple and straightforward repair that takes just a few minutes.
Since the recommended repair involves sharpening the bevel on the trigger, that edge is usually the culprit. Check out the FAQ's comments on this at the top of the page for more info.
If there is no collateral damage, it's usually a very simple and straightforward repair that takes just a few minutes.
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In my experience it's almost always the trigger, unless Bubba has already "improved" (screwed up of course) the hammer and trigger in an attempt to do a trigger job. There are many videos that show the simple fix - in fact I believe there is a video on Midway's website.
If it is just simple wear, a few strokes with a proper length stone should repair your problem for the immediate future. Do NOT touch the hammer as the engagement is only a few thousandths (.004" I believe) and almost impossible to repair yourself. If a few strokes on the trigger don't fix it, it may require a replacement.
Armorer951 suggestion above about checking for a very light Rebound Spring spring is wise too. Also check the Main Spring and Tension Screw for proper strength and tightness of screw.
If it is just simple wear, a few strokes with a proper length stone should repair your problem for the immediate future. Do NOT touch the hammer as the engagement is only a few thousandths (.004" I believe) and almost impossible to repair yourself. If a few strokes on the trigger don't fix it, it may require a replacement.
Armorer951 suggestion above about checking for a very light Rebound Spring spring is wise too. Also check the Main Spring and Tension Screw for proper strength and tightness of screw.
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dbarlstock
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Thank you all so much. Will follow all instructions provided and let you know what happens. This is a 1902 HE civilian model in 38 Mil.
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This is true for an armorer with experience. As it is a serious safety issue, however, in my opinion this job should not be attempted by a tyro, or beginner, without proper tools, and a very experienced and skilled gunsmith teaching the beginner the safe and correct method to fix this problem.
OLDSTER
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I hope you meant to say "trigger", not "hammer" ??
Boy isn't that the truth. The hammer SA notch is literally only .005" to .007" deep. You barely touch it and you've ruined a hammer -- no fix. All SA trigger work is done on the trigger you should never stone the hammer notch too dangerous.
I might add that good accurate stoning or filing is not easy at all. I did my time in gunsmith schools and had this fact driven home more than once. It didn't take long to fully understand the advantages of using a well designed accurate stoning fixture. It takes lots of practice to stone or file a true bevel or flat. You may think you've stoned a reliable trigger bevel but under a scope most of the time you'll see perhaps only half the bevel is engaged which is totally unsat. Trigger bevels of this type can come from the factory also but either way a poorly fitted trigger to hammer engagement is not hard to push off even at 4 pounds . The more the hammer is pushed off the more the trigger bevel is altered. Too many people are way too rough doing this test and gun writers are partially responsible for this. One of my Mdl 14 bullseye guns has a 1 1/2# SA break and will support 6# push. I could easily ruin this totally illegal match trigger by pushing harder but a reliable break at that poundage is novelty so I keep it.
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I am currently having the "Push-Off" issue with my recently acquired 1954 production 38/44 HD "Washington State Patrol" hand ejector.
After removing the parts and examining under good magnification I can clearly see that "BUBBA" did a freehand file job on the trigger (does not appear that he molested the hammer) and the edge is out of square and rounded off.
I have ordered up a POWER CUSTOM honing jig with the proper S&W adapter and India files to try and straighten out this mess. My guess is it may be too far gone to correct, but worth a try.
All else fails I have a source for NOS S&W parts so hopefully he can hook me up with a new original S&W trigger.
Will post an update when I have results.
After removing the parts and examining under good magnification I can clearly see that "BUBBA" did a freehand file job on the trigger (does not appear that he molested the hammer) and the edge is out of square and rounded off.
I have ordered up a POWER CUSTOM honing jig with the proper S&W adapter and India files to try and straighten out this mess. My guess is it may be too far gone to correct, but worth a try.
All else fails I have a source for NOS S&W parts so hopefully he can hook me up with a new original S&W trigger.
Will post an update when I have results.
There is also a "benchtop" remedy for push off that is taught by the instructors at the S&W armorers school that restores the bevel to the trigger at the factory correct angle. The procedure involves the use of a 6" x 1/2" x 1/2" medium India stone.
Very simple repair. It actually takes less time to re-sharpen/repair the bevel than it does to remove and return the restored trigger to the frame.
BTW....this is not rocket science. Anyone with marginal mechanical abilities who can follow instructions and who uses the correct tools and technique, can do this. The important part of the equasion is being able to determine whether or not the worn/damaged trigger can be successfully repaired and returned to the gun, or should go into the trash.
Very simple repair. It actually takes less time to re-sharpen/repair the bevel than it does to remove and return the restored trigger to the frame.
BTW....this is not rocket science. Anyone with marginal mechanical abilities who can follow instructions and who uses the correct tools and technique, can do this. The important part of the equasion is being able to determine whether or not the worn/damaged trigger can be successfully repaired and returned to the gun, or should go into the trash.
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Please tell us about this "bench top" remedy . I have a like new 625-3 that a
"big name" guild gunsmith had worked on and now the thing is unsafe in single action .
Before doing anything in terms of intervening to the point of having to resharpening the trigger bevel, you should check the rating of the rebound spring currently installed in the gun. It's very common for this spring to be altered or changed when "action work" is done.
If the rebound spring has been modified (cut) or changed to an aftermarket, lower power spring, the integrity of the SA pull can likely be returned to a safe level by simply replacing the altered rebound spring with a new, OEM one. (16 pounds)
The factory recommended SA pull rating is at or above 3 pounds.
If the rebound spring has been modified (cut) or changed to an aftermarket, lower power spring, the integrity of the SA pull can likely be returned to a safe level by simply replacing the altered rebound spring with a new, OEM one. (16 pounds)
The factory recommended SA pull rating is at or above 3 pounds.
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I will wait for delivery of the POWER CUSTOM jig/fixture and get the angle precise......
I am sure someone with a trained eye could do it freehand with a correct stone, but since this trigger is already rounded over and uneven I need to be sure to get it right.
I am sure someone with a trained eye could do it freehand with a correct stone, but since this trigger is already rounded over and uneven I need to be sure to get it right.
I recently purchased a 686 no dash that a serious push off issue, after using armorer951 instructions on how to hone a trigger the gun is up and running again.
The procedure was pretty simple all I needed was to pick up a 1/2x1/2x6 stone.
The procedure was pretty simple all I needed was to pick up a 1/2x1/2x6 stone.
Here are some photographs of a bevel I restored this morning using the benchtop procedure.. In order for the edge to last, and the for the SA pull to be correct, the bevel has to be at the correct angle, and the resulting edge must be very sharp, with no flaws. Integrity of the edge should be verified with a magnifier before re-installation. The edge of the bevel is the only part of the trigger bevel that interfaces with the hammer notch.
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**UPDATE**
I received my Power Custom Series 1 Universal Stoning Fixture in the mail today.....
Power Custom Series 1 Stoning Fixture Guide
And I am pleased to report that I was able to lightly stone the trigger sear to it's correct angle and the repair was a success.
NO MORE PUSH-OFF!!
This tool is a very sturdy piece of equipment that is very well made and precise. I highly recommend it.
The single action trigger is now smooth and crisp.
__________________
I received my Power Custom Series 1 Universal Stoning Fixture in the mail today.....
Power Custom Series 1 Stoning Fixture Guide
And I am pleased to report that I was able to lightly stone the trigger sear to it's correct angle and the repair was a success.
NO MORE PUSH-OFF!!
This tool is a very sturdy piece of equipment that is very well made and precise. I highly recommend it.
The single action trigger is now smooth and crisp.
__________________
