WTK S&W Ladysmith .22 long

[Tiger2Tank]

Hello,
I am not a S&W collector, but I would like to own 2 revolvers in my collection. So I thought I would ask the experts on one that I have located.

The one I am looking at is a new condition Ladysmith .22 long. It has the box, tissue paper and the pistol seriously looks almost brand new as does the box. It does not look refinished as the markings are pretty crisp and the bluing looks right. Am I correct to make sure no damage has happened to the barrel cone and to check three places for matching serial numbers; frame at bottom of grip, under barrel and under the cylinder ejector rod and the cylinder itself. The pistol has black plastic S&W logo grips. Serial number is 3380 .

There’s just not a lot of info out there that I could find on these. So, any advise is welcomed.

The second pistol I have not located yet, but it is a Smith & Wesson M&P model 1905 4th change, 4 inch barrel. I got close last gun show, but the barrel was longer than what I wanted.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mh51]

If that Ladysmith is correct, it is an early 1st model with a 7 shot cylinder. Made from 1902-1906. Barrel lengths varied from 2 1/4 to 3 1/2". That one needs pics to help us know more.

The M&P 1905 4th change are very common.....just keep searching and you'll find a nice one.

 

[DWalt]

You probably will not shoot it (in the condition you describe you shouldn't), but if you ever do, use only .22 Short Standard Velocity or CB caps, NEVER .22 Long Rifle. That is what causes the cracking at the rear of the barrel. 3380 would make it a .22 Hand Ejector First Model (M frame). BTW, S&W never called it the Ladysmith.

The lockwork on these is very delicate, and if you break something, it will probably have to stay broken.

If you want a 'true' Model of 1905 in .38 Special, try to find one with a square butt having a SN lower than about 240000. That is about the time S&W quit calling them the Model of 1905 and started calling them the Military and Police. If you don't care about terminology, you can go up to SN 1000000.

 

[Tiger2Tank]

I have not been able to get pics yet. I stumbled upon it at a huge gunshow about two years ago. I was able to get the business card of the dealer who had it and emailed them a couple of days ago. They still had the pistol.

I wouldn’t shoot it as I don’t shoot my collectible firearms.

So far, is that what I look for or did I miss something as far as looking for any other markings? Did these originally come with “tissue paper”?

I did not know the term “Ladysmith” was not used. I thought the name was what they gave these little pistols. Interesting!

 

[glowe]

. . . So far, is that what I look for or did I miss something . . . Did these originally come with “tissue paper”?

I would say a very important part of the acquisition is yet to be determined and that is the price you have to pay to get the gun. This is perhaps one of the most often overpriced S&W models out there. There were over 5000 1st Models, and over 26,000 total of all models made so they are not rare. They proved to be fragile guns and how many in existence today is unknown, so many sellers want way too much money for them.

Condition as you describe would put a gun like that above $1000 without the box in my mind. The boxes, if properly labeled and serial numbered to the gun (on the bottom) would be very valuable, maybe another $400 in fine condition.

As far as I know, all S&Ws were put in an waxed/oiled brown paper wrap and have not seen anything made of tissue paper that looked original??? Also, the material that S&W used for their gun stocks was hard rubber.

Good luck on your acquisition.

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

If it looks like new and does not look refinished it's highly possible that it's been factory refinished, which will look like new.

Look on the left side of the grip frame front lower corner, under the grip for #s stamped that could be a date: 11.19 or 2.32 for month and year it was done at the factory.

 

[walter o]

And just how would find another 1 in that condition for $1,000? Insurance value would be higher to replace it ..Is a registered magnum worth the price to a non collector ?

 

[delcrossv]

You probably will not shoot it (in the condition you describe you shouldn't), but if you ever do, use only .22 Short Standard Velocity or CB caps, NEVER .22 Long Rifle. That is what causes the cracking at the rear of the barrel. 3380 would make it a .22 Hand Ejector First Model (M frame). BTW, S&W never called it the Ladysmith.

The lockwork on these is very delicate, and if you break something, it will probably have to stay broken.

.22 long CB caps or Aguila Colibri's only! I wouldn't risk any standard velocity ammo in a Ladysmith.

I would say a very important part of the acquisition is yet to be determined and that is the price you have to pay to get the gun. This is perhaps one of the most often overpriced S&W models out there. There were over 5000 1st Models, and over 26,000 total of all models made so they are not rare. They proved to be fragile guns and how many in existence today is unknown, so many sellers want way too much money for them.

Condition as you describe would put a gun like that above $1000 without the box in my mind. The boxes, if properly labeled and serial numbered to the gun (on the bottom) would be very valuable, maybe another $400 in fine condition.

As far as I know, all S&Ws were put in an waxed/oiled brown paper wrap and have not seen anything made of tissue paper that looked original??? Also, the material that S&W used for their gun stocks was hard rubber.

Good luck on your acquisition.

I'd add at least $500 to Gary's estimate. LNIB 1st models are like hen's teeth.

LET'S SEE SOME PICTURES!

 

[glowe]

The issue here is we cannot see the gun. It might be worth $2000, but without pictures, no proof of original finish yet, factory refinish possibility, relatively small market, etc. how can we even speculate? Besides, I did say above $1000. Add the value potential of the box, it could go above $1500 easy, if original near mint condition.

I have put a few boxes of CB Long through my 22 HEs without incident, but I would not shoot standard 22 Shorts at almost 1000 fps. I tested several 22RF factory loads and find that most of the reduced CCI stuff offers lower velocities than standard 22 Longs. I have shown some of these numbers below, but here are all I have in my spreadsheet for comparison. Lots of published data for 22LR and averages seem to be around 1100 to 1200 fps for standard loads and HV higher. at around 1300 fps.

Factory Load Tests – 6” barrel
22 BB Caps, 400 fps
22 CB Short, 450 fps
22 CB Caps, 475 fps
22 Short UMC BP, 600 fps
22 CB long, 700 fps
22 Long Remington, 750 fps
22 Short CCI, 990 fps