Pre 19 - A lesson when buying a gun

[bigl1911]

I get a call from one of my sources. He says, I have a beautiful pre 19 combat magnum 98/99%. We talk numbers and I say it is mine. I get to the gun shop - it is a complete state of panic with crazy buying. It has been this way for over 8 months with the hypocrite anti-gunners buying like crazy here in sunny Southern Cal. Now they understand why!! Unbelievable! Don't have my glasses, in a bit of a rush, quick look, gun is not perfect but looks great and original finish - plus I have the work of seller who I completely trust. CR I take the gun. Get home look at gun under light with focus - definitely refinished. Got some advice from my SW experts. Thank you!! Diamonds are in the right places barrel/under ejector/frame with factory date 4/64. I talk with seller and of course he is feeling bad. I don't blame him; it is a factory job and would fool anyone who wasn't taking a deep look no forgetting he has been in a madhouse since the covid deal started. Actually happier about the gun since it is now a refinished shooter!! The seller is a trusted mentor, we will work out the difference one way or the other. Point? Unless you are a deeply trained expert, buy from reputable professionals who will always do the right thing.

 

[Truckman]

That is a good looking gun, with recessed cylinder...Do the grips match from side to side, or was it the lighting?...I bought a 19-4 yesterday discounted some because it doesn't have a rear sight blade or front insert, but super clean otherwise...Should be an easy fix...

Yes it does pay to buy from trusted sellers......Ben

 

[SVT28]

Thanks for the reminder OP, many of my LGS are also busy with some counters 2-3 customers deep at times. My lessons learned come from 1 cracked J frame airweight because I was not privy, 1 ringed barrel on a model 17 no dash due to excessive fouling covering it up, and a wrong serial box. Do any of these once and you learn to take your time while doing the final inspection before transfer.

SVT28

 

[austintexas]

I bought a m-28 with 6 inch bbl at a gunshow, got it home and got around to cleaning it up about a week later. I noticed a black spot inside the barrel. It wouldn't clean up, I ran a wire down the barrel and it slipped inside the black spot. Evidently someone tried to remove a stuck bullet and drilled thru the bullet into the barrel. I ended sending it off and having it converted to .45 Colt.
SWCA892

 

[mh51]

One of my favorite quotes from President Reagan: "Trust, but verify!"

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Well, with a trusted seller who will work it out, that's great, because that's a gorgeous shooter!

 

[Waveski]

Side plate looks very tight , but the buffed out logo and slight freckling on the top strap are giveaways.

Obviously I am playing Monday Morning Quarterback here , but a total lack of turn line would have tripped my "too good to be true" alarm. I think...

It is really good that you have a solid , conscientious seller. The difference between unfired and refinished must be quite significant.

 

[ken158]

Wondering why you would think there is "anything to work out" with the dealer when you bought a used gun from him? He obviously took it on trade and you had the option to buy or not to buy...

 

[bigl1911]

That is a good looking gun, with recessed cylinder...Do the grips match from side to side, or was it the lighting?...I bought a 19-4 yesterday discounted some because it doesn't have a rear sight blade or front insert, but super clean otherwise...Should be an easy fix...

Yes it does pay to buy from trusted sellers......Ben

GM -Grips is a good fit clean but but probably a replacement set is my guess.. Not numbered - not sure if this variation has numbered grips????

 

[LPD256]

I can't do anything without my glasses. Depending on price I'm guessing I would've bought it as well. My bigger regrets are saying no to guns that I should've bought but didn't.

 

[bigl1911]

Side plate looks very tight , but the buffed out logo and slight freckling on the top strap are giveaways.

Obviously I am playing Monday Morning Quarterback here , but a total lack of turn line would have tripped my "too good to be true" alarm. I think...

It is really good that you have a solid , conscientious seller. The difference between unfired and refinished must be quite significant.

It was obvious when I put my glasses on. Hard to explain the nature of what is happening in Cali referring to gun sales. As an example, one FFL only takes order over the phone. No new orders taking unless the firearm is in stock. Order taken paid - two week minimum for an appointment DROS (Cali -dealer record of sales). 10 day wait DOJ - appointment pick up gun. Cali based on covid limits how many people can be in closed environment - FFL cannot move fast enough to keep up. All sales people are doing is DROS and delivery. The sales guys, both staff and owners are completely overwhelmed. It has gone into crazy like it has in other states, but more so here because of the amount of people buying net new for home protection.

As mentioned, was not worried since seller is solid.I can return the gun, but I like it regardless and will us as a shooter. Difference between 98/99% and a factory refinished IMHO? Value today for this gun no box 98/99%? Best guess 2k to 2500. Refinished not in like new - this condition? Cut in half 1k to 1200 given a factory job and it is a low serial first year combat magnum.

 

[bigl1911]

Wondering why you would think there is "anything to work out" with the dealer when you bought a used gun from him? He obviously took it on trade and you had the option to buy or not to buy...

Good question and great point. There is nothing that has to be worked out. I bought the gun, had the opportunity to inspect, but rushed out since the environment was like an ongoing black Friday sale. This is on me.
However, seller is solid - represented the gun as factory original in excellent condition. Again, he was rushed in a stressed state, did a quick look then called me. When I buy unless there is a clear misrepresentation with intent I don't backup. Nevertheless, the seller is a very good friend. He already offered a credit or return which I refused. I will haggle him on the next one.

As an augment to this post and after thinking about it realtime not just in my head, I never ruin a relationship if something goes south when a person tries to do a favor. There is the old saying when looking at the empty glass, "No good deed goes unpunished". This is true with some people but not for me. Keep relationships in good standing with those who deserve it is the priority. I hope this is a good answer to your question.. Thanks

 

[BigBill]

I didn't look close enough. I didn't wear my glasses. The cylinder on one of my h&r 22's one bore was shaving lead. The lock up groove was loose so the line up was questionable between the cylinder and barrel. I later found out there's reports online about this seller passing not so stellar guns. I figured out which way the groove needed to close up in. I rolled the groove tighter so the bore lines up. Only one half of the groove was damaged the other half was untouched. It's just a shooter. This seller had his flat and sold guns online he changed his name online. First buy for a 22 revolver lessons come at a price. Now I'm really fussy on what I purchase. This sale hardened me up. My glasses are game on when I'm inspecting guns closely.

 

[bigl1911]

I can't do anything without my glasses. Depending on price I'm guessing I would've bought it as well. My bigger regrets are saying no to guns that I should've bought but didn't.

Exactly - Couldn't have said it better - Thank you!!

 

[BigBill]

How can you tell it's refinished?

 

[bigl1911]

How can you tell it's refinished?

First visual inspection under light was a possible light SW stamp. This sent up a flag. It looked factory to me by the finish; however under bright light I could see buff markes left and right side of frame.It is important to have a bright light source when inspecting. I knew at this point the gun had been restored in some manner but I was impressed - it was a very good job. Removed grips found the S with a diamond at base of the frame (indication factory blue and factory refin). On frame again under the grip 464 indicating returned to factory for work 4th month of year 1964. Diamond next to serial on barrel and a diamond under the extractor. Very clear..

 

[22hipower]

I wouldn't want to pay "original finish 98/99%" condition price but I would want the gun and suspect I would pay "more than its worth" from the perspective of many here. As a long time member here points out the same craftsmen using the same equipment and processes "refinished" the gun as originally finished it. In my book the typical factory refinish from that period doesn't take much of a value reduction. I've bought several and would love to buy more. Those "solid" sellers will always make up any error on a future deal. Here are a couple for which I may have overpaid but don't regret it even a little; 48 no dash (1969 re-finish), 3.5 inch pre-27 (1982 re-finish). Enjoy your "new" pre-19.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[BigBill]

Yours looked so good? How much does a factory refinish hurt the value?

 

[mmande]

I am a real novice on model 19s. Had they already eliminated the "5th screw" at the top of the side plate when the Combat Magnum came out? Was this one made in the transition between no 5th screw and model marking?
Just curious;
Mike

 

[Doc44]

The Combat Magnum was the first K-frame to be made using a 4-screw frame. The directive to delete the upper side plate screw and other changes on K-frame revolvers was issued on September 7, 1955. The change for N-frame revolvers was issued a year later. Stamping of the model number was implemented for most models in 1958 even though the directive to do so was issued on June 12, 1957.

Bill