Scharfschuetzer
Member
I just saw on the news that police departments are now complaining of the ammo shortage. Reports are that some departments are now having trouble conducting firearms training.
Police Can't Get Ammo
- Thread starter Scharfschuetzer
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A responsible department orders ammo off of state contracts at budget time and gets ammo dropped shipped from the factory. When I was running the show at my department, we always had ammo at a preset price. Maybe smaller departments do otherwise and get caught in the availability and price wars.
The LE boys can't get ammo.............
now that is a real funny joke.
now that is a real funny joke.
We qualified on a 50 round course twice a year, 300 officers. Members of SWAT qualified w/their sidearms monthly & snipers also monthly.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Not all departments have access to state bid contracts for supplies or equipment. Smaller agencies cannot hope to achieve preferential treatment for orders, and certainly cannot get the same prices for supplies and equipment that larger quantity orders provide. In the majority of smaller departments the individual officers are expected to provide their own uniforms, firearms, and ammunition (sometimes with an allowance, more frequently just as a condition of employment). Individual officers may purchase firearms and ammunition approved for duty use with the federal excise tax (11%) deducted from the prices. Some states waive background checks for credentialed LEO's, others do not.
Short version: there is no general rule that applies. Some dated information that might be of interest:
About half of all incorporated municipalities in the US (cities, towns, etc) have no police departments, relying solely on county sheriffs or state agencies.
Nearly 60% of all US law enforcement agencies (police, sheriff, etc) have fewer than 10 full-time employees, and most of those do not maintain services 24 hours per day (relying on on-call officers for emergencies, or response by next available unit for non-emergencies).
In the major metro areas the average response times for high-priority calls is over 30 minutes. In many rural areas response times are measured in hours, not minutes.
Many of the duties of a police or sheriff department are spelled out by statute; in other words, some things must be done without fail. Among those tasks there is no general requirement to conduct patrol operations or respond to the scene of a reported incident. Short version: priorities are forced on departments, usually with little or no latitude in execution.
In the US we have become accustomed to seeing LE operations performed in certain ways and certain services have become common. But that has not always been the case. Local police services have existed for only about 150 years, beginning with the major eastern cities (Boston and New York City were among the very first) and gradually adopted by others. Prior to that the sheriffs (elected officials) were usually expected to operate the jail and serve the writs and process of the courts, while local citizens (the proper term is "popular militia") were expected to apprehend violators and deliver them to the sheriff. Any investigation of a crime was typically up to the victim, frequently achieved by retaining private detectives or private police forces. Even publicly-provided prosecutors are a relatively recent development; prior to about WW1 it was not unusual for crime victims or business associations to retain lawyers to act as prosecutors in cases affecting themselves.
One thing that has not changed, and probably never will change, is that priorities are established at each step of the process. Those priorities may include financial and budgetary considerations, and may also include political decisions. We are still seeing examples daily, defund the police movements, political entities adopting policies of non-intervention or non-prosecution in certain matters, etc.
I doubt that finding sufficient ammunition for training is at the top of the priorities list in many cities, counties, or states at this point in time.
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LE training in shoot houses and the like with air soft guns is common practice. Those little devils string providing negative feedback when zapped with one. Buying on the state contract doesn't get priority shipping of ordered ammo. It gets shipped when the manufacturer is good and ready.
For individual LE's that belong to departments/SO's/highway patrol who want to practice are having a tough time. I've taught a few how to reload ammo, even loaning one my spare progressive press.
For individual LE's that belong to departments/SO's/highway patrol who want to practice are having a tough time. I've taught a few how to reload ammo, even loaning one my spare progressive press.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Get bb or pellet guns to learn on.
Sistema1927
US Veteran
One bullet was enough for Barney.
CQB27
US Veteran
I having been submitting the order for my departments ammo since 2012. We order through a distributor and the ammo is dropped shipped from the manufacturer...Federal for 5.56 and 12 gauge, Speer for 9mm, Winchester for 38 Special and Hornady for .308 duty ammo. Federal for outdoor range and indoor range (no lead frangible) training ammo.
I can verify that there is a delay in receiving ammo. So far we have received all of our .308 duty and frangible 9mm and 38 special ammo. None of the 5.56/9mm/12 GA duty or 9mm/38 special range has arrived. We are talking about 100,000 rounds that has yet to arrive.
Usually we received our total order by February. Right now we have cancelled all open range days (one day a month that any officer that wishes can come to the range and shoot on their own any and all duty weapons...pistol/rifle/shotgun) to conserve training ammo for the remainder of the years new hire training and annual qualifications.
We have been through this before, during the Obama pre re-election ammo surge 5 or 6 years ago. Then we had the bulk of our ammo order trickle in 2 to three cases at a time over a 10 month period and didn't get the last of our annual ammo order until October. The next year it was still slow arriving, but not as bad as the previous year.
The excessive ammo demand caused by fear of the current political winds is real. The limited supply that results is real too. The dwindling supply in LE ammo safes all across the country has nothing to do with timely ordering. The only way to avoid the current shortage would have been to have a crystal ball so you could have ordered twice your departments annual allotment 2 years ago.
I hate to say it, but all this "if you ordered it on time", "Used the state contract" and "You can get now if you are wiling to pay more" is nonsense when it comes to the most common calibers used across the nation in LE. It's a simple supply and demand issue....and demand has been outrunning supply by a mile since last summers riots.
I can verify that there is a delay in receiving ammo. So far we have received all of our .308 duty and frangible 9mm and 38 special ammo. None of the 5.56/9mm/12 GA duty or 9mm/38 special range has arrived. We are talking about 100,000 rounds that has yet to arrive.
Usually we received our total order by February. Right now we have cancelled all open range days (one day a month that any officer that wishes can come to the range and shoot on their own any and all duty weapons...pistol/rifle/shotgun) to conserve training ammo for the remainder of the years new hire training and annual qualifications.
We have been through this before, during the Obama pre re-election ammo surge 5 or 6 years ago. Then we had the bulk of our ammo order trickle in 2 to three cases at a time over a 10 month period and didn't get the last of our annual ammo order until October. The next year it was still slow arriving, but not as bad as the previous year.
The excessive ammo demand caused by fear of the current political winds is real. The limited supply that results is real too. The dwindling supply in LE ammo safes all across the country has nothing to do with timely ordering. The only way to avoid the current shortage would have been to have a crystal ball so you could have ordered twice your departments annual allotment 2 years ago.
I hate to say it, but all this "if you ordered it on time", "Used the state contract" and "You can get now if you are wiling to pay more" is nonsense when it comes to the most common calibers used across the nation in LE. It's a simple supply and demand issue....and demand has been outrunning supply by a mile since last summers riots.
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mckenney99
Member
While that may be true to some point, contracts do expire and then have to be re-bid or negotiated which can involve higher prices and longer delivery terms.
Well written overview. Thank you for that!
You are 100% spot on. My department has had exactly the same thing happen to us.
We purchase about 2.4 million rounds a year for a cost of about $720K and even with that type of contract the receipt of shipments is very, very slow. Also, when we negotiate our next annual contract I am sure prices will reflect the market.
Unless we had that crystal ball there was little to nothing we could have done.
Edited to add: Our old armorer and I had worked out a system where we kept about 20% of our annual allotment "on deck" in case of emergencies or other issues. When he retired this was cancelled and we went back to only ordering what we needed with no reserve on deck.
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I have a friend in the business.. he was encouraging them to put in their 2021 orders in 6 months ago.. when he had ammo to deliver.. many waited for 2021 budgets or failed to heed the warning.
Stockpiles are now exhausted and Depts. are "inline" to get theirs from the next shipment or the one after......or.........................................................
Stockpiles are now exhausted and Depts. are "inline" to get theirs from the next shipment or the one after......or.........................................................
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One bullet was enough for Barney.
Yes, I agree! I think I saw him shoot a few rounds in one episode for practice.... Those were certainly more innocent times for our world. I want them back.
YkcorCal
US Veteran
Perhaps, just perhaps, this may start a trend that will build a fire under some in places of power and influence that will in the end start a trend that will help end this drought of ammo! Let us all hope and pray it does!!! 
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VaTom
Member
Not the time for departments to switch from .40 cal Glocks to 9 mm Glocks. My old small department (I am retired) switched back around the first of the year. I transitioned the department from Model 19s to Glock .40 caliber back in the early 1990's. Couldn't get 9 mm ammo from local supplier. Borrowed enough from another large nearby department to get the 10 personnel qualified. Were told back then their order could come late spring or early summer.
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