Lyman 2400 data for 38 Special

[Benchrest1]

I have never used 2400 in a 38 and probably never will. I get all I need with Unique and 231. If I need something more powerful I'll go to a 357.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Alliant's 2000 Reloading Guide's 38 Special (+P) load data for a 158gr L-SWC @ 1.420" COAL:

2400 @ 7.8grs = 1035mv @ 17.4K psi from a 5.6" bbl.

.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ken Waters was a writer for Handloader magazine for years . He published his " pet loads " in manuals . His pet load for the 38 special using a 158 gr cast bullet was 11.0 grs of 2400 . It's a good load based on my own personal experience . It never " loosened up " any of my 38 special handguns . Regards Paul

Lyman #45 has a .38 Special load using 2400 with a 158gr cast bullet. The starting charge is 8.0gr and the max charge is 11.0gr 2400, the same as Ken Waters' load so at one time that was an acceptable load.

The only powders listed in the Lyman #45 for that bullet in the .38 are:
Bullseye, Unique, 2400, SR 7625, SR 4756 and IMR 4227. That manual was released in Jan. 1970.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I think Ken Waters was easily the best handloading journalist of modern times. The 11 grs. #2400 /158 gr. load is probably a good, safe, and "sensible" maximum load for the .38 Special.

Just remember, the GUN was a S&W K-38 6" to get those fps.....

and "constant use will result in loosening the action of the gun".

 

[rockquarry]

Just remember, the GUN was a S&W K-38 6" to get those fps.....

and "constant use will result in loosening the action of the gun".

No argument there. I no longer load .357 Magnum or warm .38 Special loads and haven't bought any #2400 in years. Even with my Outdoorsman these days, the hottest (and only) .38 Special load I use is 4 grs. 231 and a cast 160 grain H&G #51 SWC. Plenty powerful for paper targets.

 

[AJ]

The oldest loading manual that I have is a "Complete Guide To Handloading" by Phillip Sharpe. Phillip Sharpe is one of the fathers of the .357 Magnum. The original copyright in the manual is 1937. It does show loads for the 158 gr cast, but none for 2400. However, it does show 2400 for a 146 gr SHP. The charges run from 12.0 - 16.0 grains of 2400, with the velocities from 1200 - 1511 FPS. Probably meant for N frame revolvers, not sure I want to try it in my 27-2.

Sharpe had a hand in designing the original .357 Magnum bullet, the Hensley & Gibbs #51, a 160 grain cast plan base SWC. Still the best bullet I've found for .357 and .38 Special.

Sharpe listed the chamber pressures also in his loading data. With the loads stated the pressures went from 21,800 - 35,000 PSI.

 

[gwpercle]

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual number 1 (1986)
38 special - 158 gr. SWC #38-158-SWC
2400 powder
starting load - 9.0 grs. @ 926 fps
Maximum load - 10.0 grs. @ 1020 fps
use CCI # 250 magnum primers .

There you go !
Gary

 

[cowboy4evr]

I shot that load (11.0 grs of 2400) under a 158gr cast bullet for years out of a Model 15 , that was " well used " before I got it . It had been used by 2 family members as their service weapon . It never loosened up . Would I consider that a max load ---yes ? Would I use it yet today , absolutely !
Using a 158 gr cast bullet , powders I also like are Blue Dot , IMR 4756 , Unique , WSF , Vectan 9 . Regards Paul

 

[mikerjf]

Thanks everyone. It’s interesting to me that the 11.5g load packed quite a wallop; the 11.0g I shot this week was “solid, but not whoopass”. That .5 grain made a lot of difference!

BTW, both were in 38Sp cases but were fired in a 357 revolver, for safety. I wasn’t going to test this kind of thing without plenty of headroom.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I read this entire thread and I'm still trying to figure out why 2400 would be used in a 38 spl. case. The cartridge case was never designed for the pressure of a magnum powder. Of course there is the plus P case but why bother. 357 cases are already high pressure. It is much easier to download a 357 than to hotrod a 38 spl. Unless of course you just like to shoot your K frames lose. In that case l understand.

2400 is a very slow powder, doesn't burn 100% and doesn't perform as well as faster powders for velocities below 1000 fps.

 

[AJ]

I read this entire thread and I'm still trying to figure out why 2400 would be used in a 38 spl. case. The cartridge case was never designed for the pressure of a magnum powder. Of course there is the plus P case but why bother. 357 cases are already high pressure. It is much easier to download a 357 than to hotrod a 38 spl. Unless of course you just like to shoot your K frames lose. In that case l understand.

Could it be that Phillip Sharpe was using it in the mid 1930's to develop the .357 Magnum? The loadings that I quoted are in his loading manual that the first copyright is 1937. It is documented that he worked with Col. D. Wesson and Keith. .357 Magnum - Wikipedia.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Could it be that Phillip Sharpe was using it in the mid 1930's to develop the .357 Magnum? The loadings that I quoted are in his loading manual that the first copyright is 1937. It is documented that he worked with Col. D. Wesson and Keith. .357 Magnum - Wikipedia.

Could be, IDK.

I have a lot of 2400 but I don't load it for any of my K frames any more. My primary use is 30 Carbine which I find is a very good powder for a cartridge with a chamber pressure 35-40K. 17K, not so much.

 

[AJ]

Could be, IDK.

I have a lot of 2400 but I don't load it for any of my K frames any more. My primary use is 30 Carbine which I find is a very good powder for a cartridge with a chamber pressure 35-40K. 17K, not so much.

I used some 2400 in my early days of reloading for .38 Special. Back then I was using a Colt Trooper .357 and shooting heavy loads (.357 Magnum cases were hard to come by then). Then my focus shifted to .44 Magnum and used 2400 quite a lot. Now I have about 10 pounds on the shelf and haven't loaded it in quite a while.

 

[rockquarry]

I ran on to an online thread with data claimed to be from an old Lyman manual. I've only got one - if anyone has nothing to do today and wants to look at their old manuals, love to hear where/what age this data is from. (Or any other 2400 max 38Sp loads)

For 38 Special, 158g cast bullet:

The load in question was 11.5g of 2400 chrono'd at 1037 fps.

My Lyman 45th (1970ish) shows a max of 11.0g of 2400 giving 1010 fps from a 6" barrel.

My oldest Lyman manual is a #40, probably published in the early to mid '50s. It shows data for "heavy frame guns only":

150 Thompson HP, gas check SWC 13.5 grs. #2400 - MV= 1227
160 gr. Keith HP #358439 SWC 12 grs. #2400 - MV= 1228
158 Thompson #358156 or plain base version 13.5 grs. #2400 MV= 1220

While Lyman may have recommended these loads for "heavy frame guns only", I wouldn't shoot any of them even in my Outdoorsman.

 

[AJ]

My oldest Lyman manual is a #40, probably published in the early to mid '50s. It shows data for "heavy frame guns only":

150 Thompson HP, gas check SWC 13.5 grs. #2400 - MV= 1227
160 gr. Keith HP #358439 SWC 12 grs. #2400 - MV= 1228
158 Thompson #358156 or plain base version 13.5 grs. #2400 MV= 1220

While Lyman may have recommended these loads for "heavy frame guns only", I wouldn't shoot any of them even in my Outdoorsman.

I have a Lyman 41st Edition that is copyrighted 1957. It gives four loads for .38 Special using 2400



148 grain Cast Hollow Base 13.5/2400 1380 FPS

150 grain Thompson H.P. Gas Check 13.5/2400 1227 FPS

155 grain Keith HP & HB 12.0/2400 1230 FPS

158 grain Thompson Cast Plain Base 11.8/2400 1210 FPS

It further gives "Pet Loads" and gives 155 grain HP 12.0/2400 for rabbits.

No recommendation given for "Heavy Framed Guns" was mentioned.

Just goes to show the differences in loading manuals even from the same company.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I used some 2400 in my early days of reloading for .38 Special. Back then I was using a Colt Trooper .357 and shooting heavy loads (.357 Magnum cases were hard to come by then). Then my focus shifted to .44 Magnum and used 2400 quite a lot. Now I have about 10 pounds on the shelf and haven't loaded it in quite a while.

I hear that. I have a few lbs. of it myself left over from loading for my 357 rifle which I no longer have. Gives me an excuse to take my carbine to the range to burn some powder.

 

[Tim357]

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual number 1 (1986)
38 special - 158 gr. SWC #38-158-SWC
2400 powder
starting load - 9.0 grs. @ 926 fps
Maximum load - 10.0 grs. @ 1020 fps
use CCI # 250 magnum primers .

There you go !
Gary

My experience with 10.0 2400 was 888 fps from a 3" .357, and 912 from a 4" .357 in .38 cases

11 gr netted 1112 in 3", 1111 in 4". Good all around load IMO

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Don't go too light with 2400 because there will be so much powder left un-burned it will foul up your extractor. (don't as how I know)

 

[AJ]

Just looked in a Speer No. 7 loading manual. It gives loads for the 146 gr and the 160 grain bullets. If anyone is interested will post the data.

 

[kreuzlover]

I read in one of the latest editions of Handloader magazine that 2400 was originally developed for the .22 Hornet. It gave 2400 fps with the bullet they were using. That's how 2400 got its name, from the velocity that bullet gave.