Robert E. Lee's service to the country prior to 1861 was exemplary. His service in the Mexican war, the Texas frontier and capture of John Brown are the reasons the General Scott thought he was the man to lead the "Union Army."
Eisenhower letter on Robert E. Lee
- Thread starter johngross
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Puller
Member
Shame on the citizens of Virginia. We are seeing first hand death by a thousand cuts in our land.
Sistema1927
US Veteran
General Grant is a cousin of mine, and my family during the Civil War was in Connecticut and staunch abolitionists.
Yet, I would have no problem displaying pictures of both my cousin and General Lee (and General Jackson) together in my home or office.
Yet, I would have no problem displaying pictures of both my cousin and General Lee (and General Jackson) together in my home or office.
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I disagree. If you read the Articles of Secession for each of the States that seceded you'll note the emphasis they place on slavery as the cause is equal to, or more often greater, than States Rights. I'll take them at their word.
The Reasons for Secession in the Civil War - The Causes | American Battlefield Trust
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
As for the ultimate cause of secession and the war that followed, interpretations are really not necessary.
Rather than linking anything, here is the direct quote. If you need to confirm the correctness, just google “cornerstone speech”. Highlighting is mine.
Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America, March 21, 1861:
“The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution, African slavery as it exists amongst us – the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right.“
“But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, ….“
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.“
Rather than linking anything, here is the direct quote. If you need to confirm the correctness, just google “cornerstone speech”. Highlighting is mine.
Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America, March 21, 1861:
“The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution, African slavery as it exists amongst us – the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right.“
“But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, ….“
“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.“
HOUSTON RICK
Member
I am so glad that I was allowed to grow up when I did. Thank you, Lord Jesus. I feel bad for what my children are inheriting. Help them, Lord Jesus!
UncleEd
Member
I am always puzzled by the
modern day argument that
slavery was on the way out
so what was the fuss in 1861
if another generation or
two had to wait for freedom.
modern day argument that
slavery was on the way out
so what was the fuss in 1861
if another generation or
two had to wait for freedom.
usmc2427765
US Veteran
A few years ago, I found myself with a group people from our church. The subject of the Civil War came up and, I assume, because I was older than most the people in attendance, was asked if I had ancestors that served in the Confederate Army. I replied that I did and I was immediately asked if I was ashamed of this and I got a little hot at the way the question was phrased. I responded in a somewhat ballistic USMC voice that, " no I was proud of my great, great grandfathers service and that he fought for States Rights and did not want to have the Federal Government dictating what he could or could not do . He was a farmer from Goliad County, Tx and never owned a slave in his life. This seems to disturb most of the millennials in attendance and the room got very, very quiet.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
An additional observation pertaining to the Southern legend of Robert E.Lee:
In 1861, the small regular US Army had eight colonels from Virginia, plus Winfield Scott, the commanding general.
Exactly one of these felt a need to break his oath and accept a higher rank with the enemy: Robert E. Lee. All others remained loyal and gave great service to the country.
So much for the argument that loyalty to the state was compelling and required by the honor of the times, and Lee couldn’t have acted differently.
In 1861, the small regular US Army had eight colonels from Virginia, plus Winfield Scott, the commanding general.
Exactly one of these felt a need to break his oath and accept a higher rank with the enemy: Robert E. Lee. All others remained loyal and gave great service to the country.
So much for the argument that loyalty to the state was compelling and required by the honor of the times, and Lee couldn’t have acted differently.
The fact remains that the south had an economy based on agriculture while the north had an economy based on manufacturing and industry. A trade imbalance existed because the raw, unimproved products that the south sold to the north did not bring as much as the improved products the north, in turn, sold back to the south. The union had a greater population base and more states and therefore held majorities in both houses of congress. The south tried to establish trade with european countries and were constantly blocked by northern led embargoes and tariffs. If the south had an "irrelevant backwater economy", it was due to the heavy handed trade manipulation of the north and their desire to rob the south of any wealth it had built.
If the civil war was initiated over the slavery issue, consider these facts: Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware were slave states as well as Washington D.C. Slavery was abolished in D.C. in 1862, prior to the emancipation proclamation (January 1863). West Virginia separated from Virginia and joined the Union in June of 1863 as a slave state. It did not abolish slavery until February 1865. Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware did not abolish slavery until December of 1865 when the 13th amendment was passed-seven months after the end of the war.
Personally, I consider this to be old history and don't spend much time thinking about it. I simply didn't like the comment about R.E. Lee being either a fool or a traitor and a rebel. That was a very ignorant comment in my opinion and I wanted to clear the air. That type of thinking has been brought about by the one-sided view of the civil war and the stereotype of the typical southerner as an inbred yokel perpetuated by Hollywood. Now, back to guns...
If the civil war was initiated over the slavery issue, consider these facts: Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware were slave states as well as Washington D.C. Slavery was abolished in D.C. in 1862, prior to the emancipation proclamation (January 1863). West Virginia separated from Virginia and joined the Union in June of 1863 as a slave state. It did not abolish slavery until February 1865. Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware did not abolish slavery until December of 1865 when the 13th amendment was passed-seven months after the end of the war.
Personally, I consider this to be old history and don't spend much time thinking about it. I simply didn't like the comment about R.E. Lee being either a fool or a traitor and a rebel. That was a very ignorant comment in my opinion and I wanted to clear the air. That type of thinking has been brought about by the one-sided view of the civil war and the stereotype of the typical southerner as an inbred yokel perpetuated by Hollywood. Now, back to guns...
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That's what I think.....
UncleEd
Member
By golly, if the removal
of the statue of Lee brings
heartache, then consider
replacing it with that of
fellow great Virginian Gen.
George Thomas.
Thomas was no less an
honorable man than Lee
and certainly a hero in
the War Between the States.
of the statue of Lee brings
heartache, then consider
replacing it with that of
fellow great Virginian Gen.
George Thomas.
Thomas was no less an
honorable man than Lee
and certainly a hero in
the War Between the States.
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Maybe someone should have mentioned that to the Patriots when they went after King George's statue in New York in the summer of 1776 ...
Really? Removing a statue of the current king relates to the removal of a General that has been deceased for 150 years?
Grayfox
US Veteran
I've said it many times. The worst mistake you can make in the study of history is to judge it by the standards of today.
The problem with statues is that some future generation, or parts of that generation, will want to tear them down.
This even includes our country’s founding fathers.
Whether the person being represented was worthy of the honor applies to the generation that raised the statue. Some, maybe most, have survived through many generations only to be attacked when “ Those in the know say they must go!”
We are a fickle, ever changing species and I TRY not to get too bent out of shape with all the ebbs and flows.
This even includes our country’s founding fathers.
Whether the person being represented was worthy of the honor applies to the generation that raised the statue. Some, maybe most, have survived through many generations only to be attacked when “ Those in the know say they must go!”
We are a fickle, ever changing species and I TRY not to get too bent out of shape with all the ebbs and flows.
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UncleEd
Member
The"Lost Cause" mythology
remains strong in some
elements of the South and
across the nation and I see
it in evidence in several
postings here.
remains strong in some
elements of the South and
across the nation and I see
it in evidence in several
postings here.
vonn
US Veteran
A war was fought over what has been written here and still there is disagreement. Many of the same type of discussion are still happening today.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Since a few hundred thousand US soldiers died back then fighting the army commanded by Robert E. Lee, it’s hard to make any case that seeing him as an enemy of the United States is “judging him by the standards of today”.
The fact remains that no enemy officer ever was responsible for the death of more US Army soldiers than Lee. In view of that, fussing over how exactly he felt about slavery and other details seems wholly inadequate to prop up his iconic image.
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