I know all about the different oaths. Other than your statement, where is it written, proclaimed, codified, etc. that the oath of office doesn’t expire upon termination of employment?
Eisenhower letter on Robert E. Lee
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CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I first said that in an American History class whilst defending a paper on the pelophonesian warThe future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author......Ben
UncleEd
Member
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
To expand the topic a bit, it is interesting to see how many champions of the South (not necessarily Southerners) one encounters nowadays who seriously believe that the result of a Confederate victory would have been a United States governed by “Southern values”, whatever that means to them. Maybe along the lines of that Hank Williams Jr. song “If the South woulda won, we woulda had it made”.
Of course, historically that’s a joke. Even the most ambitious Southerners never saw as their grand prize more than an independent Confederacy, recognized by the United States and other world powers, and possibly securing an advantageous settlement regarding the Western territories.
Even if Lee had won at Gettysburg, rushed the DC defenses, and captured Lincoln, that kind of political victory would have been the most ambitious accomplishment. And by no means guaranteed, as the Confederates would still have barely touched the real centers of the North‘s economic and political power and population.
But as a result of the failure to acknowledge this, it‘s difficult to find Southern partisans with any succinct ideas about positive paths into the post-1865 future for a hypothetically victorious South.
Of course, historically that’s a joke. Even the most ambitious Southerners never saw as their grand prize more than an independent Confederacy, recognized by the United States and other world powers, and possibly securing an advantageous settlement regarding the Western territories.
Even if Lee had won at Gettysburg, rushed the DC defenses, and captured Lincoln, that kind of political victory would have been the most ambitious accomplishment. And by no means guaranteed, as the Confederates would still have barely touched the real centers of the North‘s economic and political power and population.
But as a result of the failure to acknowledge this, it‘s difficult to find Southern partisans with any succinct ideas about positive paths into the post-1865 future for a hypothetically victorious South.
5 US Code 3331 provides the oath for Federal officials.
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About well known folks....whether they are heroes or zeros depends on who writes the history. Don Juan de Onate, first Governor of New Mexico in 1598, is lauded by Hispanics as a courageous conquistador. Pueblo tribes see him as a murderer and slaver who murdered 800-1000 Acoma men, women, and children, took most survivors into 20 years' slavery, and cut off the toes of the men (legend says he cut off one foot, but his journals show he only cut off "...the points of the feet...") because they killed 13 Spaniards, including his nephew.
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I've followed this discussion with great interest. Great intellectual discourse on both "sides" and I've not heard anything remotely unpatriotic. The conundrum gnawing at me presently is that I am more inclined to defend my house rather than Washington DC. Then again, "I'm not much but I'm all I ever think about." Joe
Monument Ave is no longer Monument Ave...literally.
akoda
Member
They are going after A.P. Hill monument now on Laburnam Ave. AP Hill statue slowed them way down since he is buried there. They'll move him soon. Funny they dug him up once in order to put him on Laburnam.
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As a Virginian it depresses me to see whats going on. Just watch out, removing crosses from Church's will be next.
James K
Member
The Civil War never ended. It's getting re-energized. We are a species of tribes and cults. Leaders know that if they foster fear about the others it will provide them with the influence and control over their own supporters.
Scott had been in the army since before Robert E Lee was born. Those other colonels were protecting their pensions. General Lee was the only one to stay true to Virginia.
UncleEd
Member
You including one of the war's most
famous generals, George Thomas,
as a mere pension protector?
Ugly Hombre
Member
"It's a sad day today for Richmond with the statue of Lee down."
And also our Republic.
My family fought for the north yet, I think it is a shame that the current denizens of our country are trying to erase history and heap shame on the Confederates that fought for what they thought was right 156 years ago. It is a disgusting exhibition of 'wokeness" at its worst.
No American alive today ever owned a slave and no American alive today bears any guilt for it.
Did Black People Own Slaves? | AfricanAmerica.org
And that includes the black Americans who owned slaves and went to war with the north to keep their slaves and privilege.
"Reperations" for slavery is a idiot idea. Are you going to give reparations to the descendants of the two hundred thousand plus Yankees who died fighting to end it?
Are you going to track down the descendants of black slave owners from the rebel states a century ago, and leave them out of the cash "reparations?".
"Blood guilt" is a Bolshevik concept. And so is lying about and erasing history. E.G .the "1619 Project"
Both are Un- American concepts & no good ever came from either of them.
And also our Republic.
My family fought for the north yet, I think it is a shame that the current denizens of our country are trying to erase history and heap shame on the Confederates that fought for what they thought was right 156 years ago. It is a disgusting exhibition of 'wokeness" at its worst.
No American alive today ever owned a slave and no American alive today bears any guilt for it.
Did Black People Own Slaves? | AfricanAmerica.org
And that includes the black Americans who owned slaves and went to war with the north to keep their slaves and privilege.
"Reperations" for slavery is a idiot idea. Are you going to give reparations to the descendants of the two hundred thousand plus Yankees who died fighting to end it?
Are you going to track down the descendants of black slave owners from the rebel states a century ago, and leave them out of the cash "reparations?".
"Blood guilt" is a Bolshevik concept. And so is lying about and erasing history. E.G .the "1619 Project"
Both are Un- American concepts & no good ever came from either of them.
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The current trend, if you don't like what happened in the past, change history. How soon will the statues of politicians be removed? Thomas Jefferson owned slaves so I guess his statutes and his picture on our money will soon be removed/changing? Monticello will be closed?
I'm glad I'm an old curmudgeon as I will not be around to see where this all leads.
I'm glad I'm an old curmudgeon as I will not be around to see where this all leads.
UncleEd
Member
Perhaps an alternative
discussion might be what
if the South, the Confederate
States of America had won
their separation from the
United States of America.
Where would these nations
or individual states be today?
At the time, I suspect, one
overall collective winner
would have been the
European nations.
discussion might be what
if the South, the Confederate
States of America had won
their separation from the
United States of America.
Where would these nations
or individual states be today?
At the time, I suspect, one
overall collective winner
would have been the
European nations.
TexasArmed
Member
Now that Confederate statues are being torn down I won't ever waste any money going to tour sites like Gettysburg where I plan to go some
years ago. If I spend any money on tourism it might be to go somewhere here in Texas like the Alamo. This merely makes southerners like me refuse to support states like California, Oregon, NY,
PA, Virginia. Additionally I refuse to celebrate any holidays by the
left. I heard Oregon plans to boycott Texas Oil, so I added Oregon to
the list of places I don't want to buy products from. Where do idiots
get off telling my State how it is going to be ran? The only flags I allow
to be flown on my property is the Texas Flag and the US Flag.
I am not paying reparitions to anyone because of my ancestors serving
in the Texas calvary. Just don't try to go there.
years ago. If I spend any money on tourism it might be to go somewhere here in Texas like the Alamo. This merely makes southerners like me refuse to support states like California, Oregon, NY,
PA, Virginia. Additionally I refuse to celebrate any holidays by the
left. I heard Oregon plans to boycott Texas Oil, so I added Oregon to
the list of places I don't want to buy products from. Where do idiots
get off telling my State how it is going to be ran? The only flags I allow
to be flown on my property is the Texas Flag and the US Flag.
I am not paying reparitions to anyone because of my ancestors serving
in the Texas calvary. Just don't try to go there.
Part of my formative years were in Virginia in the 1950s and 60s. Lee was a revered figure. I have not studied the Civil War, and beyond being aware of Lee's being revered, knew, and know, little about him.
I am not invested enough to argue the case either way, but I do feel badly for those who revere him and now believe he is unjustly maligned.
That said, here is an article based on the view of "Ty Seidule, a retired U.S. Army brigadier general and military historian who is the former head of the U.S. Military Academy history department. Now at Hamilton College, he’s the author of 'Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning With the Myth of the Lost Cause.'"
The view is decidedly not complimentary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/10/robert-e-lee-statue-richmond-trump-history/
I am not invested enough to argue the case either way, but I do feel badly for those who revere him and now believe he is unjustly maligned.
That said, here is an article based on the view of "Ty Seidule, a retired U.S. Army brigadier general and military historian who is the former head of the U.S. Military Academy history department. Now at Hamilton College, he’s the author of 'Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning With the Myth of the Lost Cause.'"
The view is decidedly not complimentary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/10/robert-e-lee-statue-richmond-trump-history/
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