38 M&P POST WAR PRE-MODEL 10 ROUND BUTT

Karl J

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I recently purchased a 38 M&P 2” round butt, post-war, pre-model 10 with a C prefix serial number of C 555XX.

This revolver as seen in the pictures has what I believe to be pre-war round butt grips and a flat thumbpiece. The grips are numbered to the gun as well as all other parts. The most interesting thing about this revolver is the flat thumbpiece. I am wondering if this thumbpiece is in fact original to the gun. The reason I say that is I have two other early post war 2-inch revolvers of the same model and vintage, one a S prefix and the other a later C prefix with 6 numbers and both have the standard non flat thumbpiece so it makes me wonder.

I removed the thumbpiece and found the bolt to have a raised square section which fits the slot in the frame and is tapped for a screw as opposed to the nut/stud configuration normally seen on this model. Also, the frame has the hole for the lanyard ring lock pin access.

Without getting into all the details around flat thumbpieces on frames other than I, J or airweight K frames, I would like the members opinions on what exactly I have here. Is it a transition that was assembled with excess parts by the factory, or could it have been modified with a bolt, flat thumbpiece and screw by someone after it left the factory, using K frame airweight parts?

The 4th edition of SCSW indicates on page 507 that flat thumbpieces were utilized from 1950 through 1966 yet this revolver’s serial number places it in the 1948 timeframe. Also, I am aware that S&W may have shipped this gun much later than 1948 but it still raises a question in my mind as to originality of the thumbpiece which by all information I have read came into use in the 1950’s.

This gun was used very little as evident of the faint turn ring and its excellent condition, so I believe it to be completely original. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Karl…
 

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I will throw my guesses in for debate. Only K frames carried the "C" serial number prefix, starting with "C 1" in March 1948. 4 line frame address started in April 1948, so the gun has to be later. Matte or satin bluing was done during the period from 1946 to 1955. That pretty much says your revolver shipped from the factory between 1948 and 1955, but likely right around 1950.

Now for the peculiar flat-latch. My guess is that the original standard thumb-latch was lost and a flat latch was installed as a replacement? That particular style flat latch came about the same time as the 5th screw was eliminated on Airweight and Aircrewman revolvers around 1955, which is too late for your gun by my thinking. Very nice example half-moon front sight gun with a 2" barrel that is not seen that often.

I will let others tackle the walnut diamonds, but thought that most were Magna style stocks by 1950?
 
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Gary, I understand your supposition that the flat latch may have been replaced because the original may have been lost. I thought that too, but in order to replace it with this type of flat latch the entire bolt would have to be replaced because the bolt does not have a threaded hole to accept a screw which holds the flat thumbpiece in place. My other two M&P's have a stud which accepts a cap screw to secure the thumbpiece.
 
It is hard to explain the flat thumbpiece on this revolver. As far as I know the M&P Airweight was the only K frame that had the flat thumbpiece, and those didn't appear until 1951. Your serial number shows your revolver probably shipped in 1949. Serials only reached about C40000 in 1948.

You are correct that to replace the part would have required a change of bolt. Are there any SD marks on the left side of the grip frame, like a date code?
 
I will let others tackle the walnut diamonds, but thought that most were Magna style stocks by 1950?
No. On the round butt 2" guns, it isn't uncommon to find prewar style stocks on S prefix and early C prefix revolvers. We've even seen hard rubber on some that letter correctly.
 
Here are my 2 round but pre 10 snubbies. One has numbers matching pre war gips, Serial C537xx and shipped in March of 1949. The other with magnas shipped August of '54.

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I meant to say that probably both the bolt and the thumb-piece would have been replaced. It is hard to think that those stocks would have been laying around after 4 or 5 years post-war, but Randy's have the same stocks?? How about checking the inside of the right stock. if it has a number matching the gun, they are original.

What seems to give the replaced thumb-latch some credence, is the fact that the wide flat-latch addition seems to coincide with the elimination of the 5th screw in 1955?
 
I plan on getting it lettered when the process opens back up in January of 2022.
On your request form, be sure to ask specifically about the latch and include a photo for Roy.

Unless it was a special order, I doubt the shipping records or the invoice will indicate the style of thumbpiece. Hence, you may not get an answer to this question in a letter. Worth a try though.
 
I have a round butt M&P, serial number C1705XX. I haven’t checked with Roy, but I believe it dates to 1951-52. Mine has a conventional latch and post-war numbered service stocks with the rounded corners on the checkering border. Interesting variations on the guns. From what I’ve seen, these round butt M&P’s with service stocks are a lot less common than square butt versions.

Pardon the poor photo, but it’s too much trouble to get it out of the case.

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It is hard to think that those stocks would have been laying around after 4 or 5 years post-war
Well, we have plenty of evidence that they were. Keep in mind that, beginning in the 1920s, there just were not a lot of round butt K frames made, including during WWII. Even in the immediate postwar period, S prefix round butt 2" revolvers constitute the lowest production figures by far. I don't have any trouble believing there was a stash of round butt stocks sitting in a bin, both walnut and rubber.
 
From what I’ve seen, these round butt M&P’s with service stocks are a lot less common than square butt versions.
Absolutely correct, Chad. In my S prefix database, containing more than 5,000 entries, the 2" square butt units outnumber the round butt units by a huge margin. I'd have to do a sort and a count, but the ratio is probably somewhere in the 10-1 range.

As a matter of fact, some of the round butt units shipped in the 1946-48 period were put together using prewar frames, as has been discussed on this forum previously.
 
Nice guns Randy& Chad. I am starting to acquire a healthy addiction to these 2 inchers. I need to find a gold box for this one also. Thanks for the advice Jack, I just hope there wont be a ton of requests before me.
Just to point out again, the grips ARE numbered to the gun.
 
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