1911 - Tired, Old, Unreliable Pistol Past It's Prime?
- Thread starter Puller
- Start date
I've seen my fair share of 1911's come through our range and exhibit stoppages, in both LE and private citizen hands.
Some of the common factors shared are poor and/or poorly maintained magazines; less than optimal quality ammunition; guns which have been "improved" and "modified" by someone (shooter, outside smith, friend, etc); lack of good shooter maintenance; guns which left the factory with issues ... just to name some off the top of my head.
Having long been a 1911 owner and enthusiast, I remember the days in the 70's when a box-stock Colt might, or might not, reliably feed JHP's out-of-the-box, and when magazines had to be hand-selected to work with JHP's.
Now, as one of the 1911 armorers for my former agency, I saw my fair share of issues in NIB guns from a couple of the growing number of manufacturers of 1911's. Seemed as though those things might've been caught and corrected before they left the companies, but the same could be said of anything made by people.
In 2005, after I took my Colt pistol armorer class, I ordered a couple of new 1911's, a Colt XSE stainless Government and a S&W SW1911SC (stainless slide, SC aluminum frame and 5" barrel). Using a couple brands of magazines I'd come to trust, I ran an assortment of various 230gr JHP duty loads we'd used over time through both guns. Aside from the irritating instance of one side of the ambi thumb safety assembly snapping off and falling to the ground on the Colt the first range day
- which was replaced with a single side safety - both 1911's fed, fired and ejected all the JHP's I tried.
I scoped the tolerances and fit of the hammers/sears in both 1911's, just out of curiosity, and found both to have been assembled and fitted quite well. Nicely done for standard guns right out of their boxes (except for that stupid ambi safety assembly, which the Colt tech told me, when I called, was an aftermarket part they used on their XSE's at the time
).
That continued for several years, until one day one end of the plunger tube loosened on the SW1911SC. I didn't feel like fiddling with replacing it myself, because of the aluminum frame, so I let the factory replace it.
Now, several more years later, both of those 1911's are still perking right along and functioning with the same assortment of JHP's. Reliably. Since I've retired from my regualr career, and from serving as an instructor, I don't do as much shooting with them as I did when I was shooting throughout each month, but the guns still serve my needs well. I don't carry the big 5" guns as often as my smaller compact and subcompact models, preferring less weight on my hips, but those 5" 1911's have long proven their reliability, for me, in my hands.
Some of the common factors shared are poor and/or poorly maintained magazines; less than optimal quality ammunition; guns which have been "improved" and "modified" by someone (shooter, outside smith, friend, etc); lack of good shooter maintenance; guns which left the factory with issues ... just to name some off the top of my head.
Having long been a 1911 owner and enthusiast, I remember the days in the 70's when a box-stock Colt might, or might not, reliably feed JHP's out-of-the-box, and when magazines had to be hand-selected to work with JHP's.
Now, as one of the 1911 armorers for my former agency, I saw my fair share of issues in NIB guns from a couple of the growing number of manufacturers of 1911's. Seemed as though those things might've been caught and corrected before they left the companies, but the same could be said of anything made by people.
In 2005, after I took my Colt pistol armorer class, I ordered a couple of new 1911's, a Colt XSE stainless Government and a S&W SW1911SC (stainless slide, SC aluminum frame and 5" barrel). Using a couple brands of magazines I'd come to trust, I ran an assortment of various 230gr JHP duty loads we'd used over time through both guns. Aside from the irritating instance of one side of the ambi thumb safety assembly snapping off and falling to the ground on the Colt the first range day
- which was replaced with a single side safety - both 1911's fed, fired and ejected all the JHP's I tried.I scoped the tolerances and fit of the hammers/sears in both 1911's, just out of curiosity, and found both to have been assembled and fitted quite well. Nicely done for standard guns right out of their boxes (except for that stupid ambi safety assembly, which the Colt tech told me, when I called, was an aftermarket part they used on their XSE's at the time
). That continued for several years, until one day one end of the plunger tube loosened on the SW1911SC. I didn't feel like fiddling with replacing it myself, because of the aluminum frame, so I let the factory replace it.
Now, several more years later, both of those 1911's are still perking right along and functioning with the same assortment of JHP's. Reliably. Since I've retired from my regualr career, and from serving as an instructor, I don't do as much shooting with them as I did when I was shooting throughout each month, but the guns still serve my needs well. I don't carry the big 5" guns as often as my smaller compact and subcompact models, preferring less weight on my hips, but those 5" 1911's have long proven their reliability, for me, in my hands.
One thing I omitted mentioning was that a 1911 does typically require a bit more owner/user maintenance knowledge than other handguns. At least regarding keeping springs fresh and knowing the right amount of lube to run for conditions.
Also, since magazines are at the very heart of reliable feeding and functioning, magazines are not where someone ought to cut corners.
Ditto using a good quality holster and keeping an eye on its condition.
Also, since magazines are at the very heart of reliable feeding and functioning, magazines are not where someone ought to cut corners.
Ditto using a good quality holster and keeping an eye on its condition.
I have a 20 year old Springfield Armory 1911 GI in Stainless Steel. I've fed it thousands of rounds from handloads to factory rejects and it's never failed to feed or jammed. Maybe it's a "good one" but it's 100% reliable!
Probably the most accurate assessment yet.
I attended Glock armorers school twice over the years and worked on quite a few. But I've never owned one. They are good honest tools but I'm just not a fan. And I don't make firearms decisions based on what Larry Vickers or any other personality says, just another opinion among thousands. I'll just keep carrying my very reliable 30 year old Kimber CDP in .45ACP a while longer.
John Browning's 110 year old design, and people are still trying to come up with something markedly better. That says something, so does the fact they are using the same cartridge.
I like my 645, I think it is every bit as good as a 1911.
I like my 645, I think it is every bit as good as a 1911.
Rodfac
Member
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I'm a fan...the 1911 just fits my hands well and I shoot it better than most other autos for that reason. I have a long history with them...carried an Army issue one for the better part of one of my tours in Vietnam in 1970...accurate, not really...reliable...well I bet my life on it nightly in slit trenches and sand-bagged defensive positions...and that big 230 grain slug was comforting when barreling down a commo trench to the mortor pit.
I still love the gun...have them in .22, .38 Super, 9mm, .40 S&W, & .45...they're all good....the best for carry is a Sig RCS in .45 acp; officer's grip, an alloy frame checkered fore and aft on the grip surfaces, Novak night sights, match barrel; you get the idea...it's a superb carry/fighting pistol that's 100% reliable without the 'mall ninja' pistol games **** so often hyped in the shooting magazines.
I've owned a baker's dozen from Remington-Rand, Colt, Ruger & Sig...go ahead & pick one, & be happy...you'll be carrying history in your hand and can trust its long and honorable record of dependability. Best Regards, Rod (Pic of Sig RCS below)
I still love the gun...have them in .22, .38 Super, 9mm, .40 S&W, & .45...they're all good....the best for carry is a Sig RCS in .45 acp; officer's grip, an alloy frame checkered fore and aft on the grip surfaces, Novak night sights, match barrel; you get the idea...it's a superb carry/fighting pistol that's 100% reliable without the 'mall ninja' pistol games **** so often hyped in the shooting magazines.
I've owned a baker's dozen from Remington-Rand, Colt, Ruger & Sig...go ahead & pick one, & be happy...you'll be carrying history in your hand and can trust its long and honorable record of dependability. Best Regards, Rod (Pic of Sig RCS below)
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Well, they accomplish one worthwhile thing anyway - they spawn multi-page discussions!
Story about a Glock 45 an an RIA 45. Friend at work considers himself an action shootist. When the local outdoor range is empty, he'll set up several targets and do a l-r, r-l run'n'gun exercise with his Glock, a mdl 21 45 ACP. We decided to go shooting together one afternoon last year. We set up several SD distance silouhette targets at 7 yards. He had one box of 230 gr 45 hardball. I brought two boxes each of Federal 230 HS, CCI Aluminum 230 hardball, and one box of Speer 230gr G2 JHP+P. He loaded up his glock, and shot, standing, a rough fist-sized group at 7 yards with his hardball. I loaded one mag each of the three I had for my RIA Standard. All cut into the same fist-sized hole in the next target. Surprised, he asked to try my ammo. I said "sure" and loaded one mag of each load. He had one FTC with the CCI Aluminum, two with the Federal HS, and none with the Speer GS, but his comment was "that kicked hard." The hits varied up and down the target. He asked to try my RIA. I mixed up all three loads in one 8-round mag for my RIA, and handed it to him. The were nearly all one-hole at seven yards. He didn't even notice the G2 rounds in the stack.
Don't think anything is learned from this limited experience, but I do know he sold the Glock mdl 21 45 and bought a CZ Browning clone.
I have 2 45 ACP's - my RIA, and a Ruger American. They both shoot all my 45's in stock, every time I pull the trigger.
Don't think anything is learned from this limited experience, but I do know he sold the Glock mdl 21 45 and bought a CZ Browning clone.
I have 2 45 ACP's - my RIA, and a Ruger American. They both shoot all my 45's in stock, every time I pull the trigger.
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max503
Member
Best answer to the Glock vs 1911 debate is to have at least one of each.
I have several 1911s and one Glock. The glock never leaves the safe.
That's exactly right.
max503
Member
I like mine. I don't carry it but I like shooting it. But I reload so I can afford to.
OP
Puller
Member
It's a discussion forum. What I've learned in the discussion is that it's no wonder our country is so divided when folks get worked up over little stuff, and it's all little stuff.
Generally when you get worked up over little stuff, that is because there isn't any big stuff to get worked up over. That may be a good thing.
I may get tired if I reach 111 years old.
The weight comes in handy for wacking someone up side the head
None of my 1911's have never let me down. Kimber (Yonkers), Colt 70 Series, nor my SA 1911 Loaded. Used them all in IDPA.
I do use Breakthrough Clean Battle Born Lubricants in all my firearms thou .
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