History repetes itself.

[lawandorder]

After Federal District Judge Issac Charles Parker hung 6 man at once on the gallows at Fort Smith for the first time in the 1870s a local paper made this comment.
"Without the certainty of Punishment, there is NO deterent to crime."

Seems like the pendilum maybe be swinging back.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Isaac Parker's hangman was one George Maledon.He told people:
"There are no ghosts by the gibbet. I hanged them too."

 

[dsf]

When the discussion at work tends toward correction and discipline, whether work related or social, I tell fellow employees there's one sign that everyone pays attention to. It's not the "Emergency Exit" or "Alarm Will Sound" sign. Not always the "No Smoking Within 15 ft" sign. Some of the time, OK. But because there's no immediate consequence, eh - not so much.

The one sign everyone pays attention to is ....

"Wet Paint"

Doesn't matter if you're wearing a $3K Dunhill suit, brand new dungarees or the Pope's robes. Anyone who disregards that sign knows what will happen.

 

[Mule Packer]

The one sign everyone pays attention to is ....

"Wet Paint"

Speaking of "Wet Paint," I had a dog that could read. At least I'm pretty sure he could. We were walking through the local park one afternoon and saw a park bench with a sign that read, "WET PAINT." And, by golly, that's exactly what my dog did.

(Sorry for the brief derailment.)

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[krsmith58]

Speaking of "Wet Paint," I had a dog that could read. At least I'm pretty sure he could. We were walking through the local park one afternoon and saw a park bench with a sign that read, "WET PAINT." And, by golly, that's exactly what my dog did.

(Sorry for the brief derailment.)

thanks for making my first graveyard a bit more fun. krs

 

[LoboGunLeather]

After Federal District Judge Issac Charles Parker hung 6 man at once on the gallows at Fort Smith for the first time in the 1870s a local paper made this comment.
"Without the certainty of Punishment, there is NO deterent to crime."

Seems like the pendilum maybe be swinging back.

I continue to wonder just how much longer it might be until Americans stop calling 9-1-1 for police response and simply start calling the Sanitation Department for removal of the rotting corpses on the streets and sidewalks.

About 40 or 50 years ago there was a minor motion picture titled "In Broad Daylight", based upon a true story of a small town continually victimized by a notorious bully (played by Patrick Denehy, as I recall). The climax of the story came when a bunch of folks gathered around the bully with shotguns and deer rifles, took care of business, then went home. Investigators could not find anyone willing to admit having seen or heard anything. Apparently the years of failure by the courts and public agencies in dealing with a chronic problem came to an end at the same time that the general public reached the end of their patience.

Just speculating here, no recommendations being offered.

Edit to correct: 1991 production, Patrick Dennehy and Cloris Leachman, occurred in Skidmore, Missouri.

 

[SMSgt]

A polar bear fell on me...

 

[Kiwi cop]

One of the disadvantages of an editic memory is I remember strange unrelated stuff I have read or heard.

Back in the early '70's NZ had a couple of weekly tabloids who liked to run lurid stories every few months on the death penalty in the US. (they were liberal rags who were not in favour of a death penalty and we had a very popular liberal government at the time, which only lasted one 3 year term, almost unheard of here). I remember the headline of one story reading "Old Sparky Still Going Strong" about a test of the electric chair in one penitentiary. I can still remember the basis of some of the stories written.

About 1972 the SCOTUS ruled the death penalty unconstitutional, claiming the electric chair "cruel and inhumane". For the next four years there were no executions in the U.S.

By 1976 the murder rate across America had risen horribly, especially among police and crime victims. The reasoning went like this:

"If I get caught for this I'm going to jail for a long time. If this victim/police officer lives then the chances of my getting caught increase.

If I kill him I can possibly get away as there is no witness against me. Even if I do get caught I won't be executed, I will just go to jail for a long time, so I will kill him/her and hopefully get away".

In 1976 SCOTUS reversed their decision, While the chair was no longer in favour, lethal injection took its place, with the firing squad being used in Utah for one convicted person in late '76. Over the next few years the murder rates dropped back to per '72 levels.

Just a bit of trivia I bring up when someone says the death penalty does not deter crime.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Just a minor FYI. Old Sparky is the official name of Ohio's electric chair.

Everything is with needles now. The drug/chemical manufacturer in France tried to impose their will on the States that use the needle, by refusing to sell us the correct drugs required by law! A court order followed by a permanent change in our laws made it legal to execute with any chemicals that bring about a humane result. This help balance our foreign trade deficit by a small amount.

BTW in the 1970's Ohio governor John Joyce Gilligan (D) stopped the use of capital punishment, (against the will of the citizens), the night before the execution of a two-victim murderer. After 22 years on death, row the murderer was paroled. He worked at my best friend's gas station in the early 80's, his name was Curt. Very interesting character! After the reinstatement of the death penalty, Old Sparky was refurbished and used for a few times before retirement.

In a conversation with the current Ohio Attorney General (several years ago) on the topic of a pending execution he said; I don't know if execution of murders will lower the crime rate. I do know this murderer will never kill anyone again!

Ivan

 

[BigBoy99]

When I was working, I lived in the Washington, DC area. It was a daily news item about car jackings which had taken place the previous day. There were usually 2 or more incidents.

Then one day, two guys decided to car-jack this late model vehicle driven by a single male drive. They pulled their guns and demanded the vehicle. The driver got out and shot and killed both of the guys. He was an FBI agent on his way to work.

There wasn't one news report of a carjacking in the whole Washington DC area for the next 9 months!

 

[lawandorder]

The rail car thefts in LA which in the words of the Governor makes it look like a third world country can be stopped.

LR brought the same problem to a screeching halt back in the late 70s early 80s. A photograph appeared in the newspaper of LRPD on the roofs of boxcar armed with shotguns promising to shoot thieves who didn't immediately surrender.

If my old memory is reaching back correctly 2 or 3 of those robbers died in the rail yard then by golly RR thefts ceased.

Was it controversial? Well yeah! Folks have to choose law & order or anarchy. Can not have both.

 

[Geno44]

I continue to wonder just how much longer it might be until Americans stop calling 9-1-1 for police response and simply start calling the Sanitation Department for removal of the rotting corpses on the streets and sidewalks.

About 40 or 50 years ago there was a minor motion picture titled "In Broad Daylight", based upon a true story of a small town continually victimized by a notorious bully (played by Patrick Denehy, as I recall). The climax of the story came when a bunch of folks gathered around the bully with shotguns and deer rifles, took care of business, then went home. Investigators could not find anyone willing to admit having seen or heard anything. Apparently the years of failure by the courts and public agencies in dealing with a chronic problem came to an end at the same time that the general public reached the end of their patience.

Just speculating here, no recommendations being offered.

Edit to correct: 1991 production, Patrick Dennehy and Cloris Leachman, occurred in Skidmore, Missouri.

The bad guy was Brian Dennehy. Very interesting movie.

 

[ladder13]

One of the disadvantages of an editic memory is I remember strange unrelated stuff I have read or heard.

Back in the early '70's NZ had a couple of weekly tabloids who liked to run lurid stories every few months on the death penalty in the US. (they were liberal rags who were not in favour of a death penalty and we had a very popular liberal government at the time, which only lasted one 3 year term, almost unheard of here). I remember the headline of one story reading "Old Sparky Still Going Strong" about a test of the electric chair in one penitentiary. I can still remember the basis of some of the stories written.

About 1972 the SCOTUS ruled the death penalty unconstitutional, claiming the electric chair "cruel and inhumane". For the next four years there were no executions in the U.S.

By 1976 the murder rate across America had risen horribly, especially among police and crime victims. The reasoning went like this:

"If I get caught for this I'm going to jail for a long time. If this victim/police officer lives then the chances of my getting caught increase.

If I kill him I can possibly get away as there is no witness against me. Even if I do get caught I won't be executed, I will just go to jail for a long time, so I will kill him/her and hopefully get away".

In 1976 SCOTUS reversed their decision, While the chair was no longer in favour, lethal injection took its place, with the firing squad being used in Utah for one convicted person in late '76. Over the next few years the murder rates dropped back to per '72 levels.

Just a bit of trivia I bring up when someone says the death penalty does not deter crime.

Great post Kiwi cop.

 

[Puller]

I continue to wonder just how much longer it might be until Americans stop calling 9-1-1 for police response and simply start calling the Sanitation Department for removal of the rotting corpses on the streets and sidewalks.

Although I agree with this statement ^^^, in reality, if people would just TALK to one another and at least try to work out problems instead of calling 911 because their neighbor's dog pee'd on their shrub, it would solve a lot of interpersonal issues in our communities. In the 21st century, people complain openly on social media but they don't actually talk to the people who offended them.

 

[LDM]

How do you deal with rats and roaches if they infest your house? Do you house and feed them for 20-30-40 years? Do you give them a warning and let them go? Do you just let them run amok all over the place?

NO! YOU EXTERMINATE THEM!

That's what needs to be done with society's rats and roaches that prey on others.

Stop wasting money building prisons and start building gallows. Put one in front of every courthouse and use it as soon as the guilty verdict is announced. Got to get the message through to these deviants.

 

[dsf]

How do you deal with rats and roaches if they infest your house? Do you house and feed them for 20-30-40 years? Do you give them a warning and let them go? Do you just let them run amok all over the place?

NO! YOU EXTERMINATE THEM!

That's what needs to be done with society's rats and roaches that prey on others.

Stop wasting money building prisons and start building gallows. Put one in front of every courthouse and use it as soon as the guilty verdict is announced. Got to get the message through to these deviants.

My great uncle witnessed one of the last public hangings in the US. Charlie Birger in downstate Illinois. It evidently had an impression on him. Up to that point dear old Uncle Clyde was involved with unsavory characters and was not a disinterested observer of the hanging.

I'd always been told "society expresses its disapproval by the punishment it imposes". I think that addresses the issue much better than questions about the effectiveness of deterrence, economics or recidivism.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

with the firing squad being used in Utah for one convicted person in late '76.

I heard a rumor that a Utah Firing Squad consisted of 12 men with state furnished rifles and ammo with only 2 live rounds. At the execution of a child molester, the corps had 4 slugs in it! The people of Utah believe in being thorough.

I'm sure MulePacker has an accurate memory.

Ivan

 

[quikdraw67]

As I stated in a previous post, want to stop the looting of railroad cars in the rail yard?

3 words.

Belt. Fed. Weapons.

 

[pharmer]

I heard a rumor that a Utah Firing Squad consisted of 12 men with state furnished rifles and ammo with only 2 live rounds. Ivan

Copied from the Wiki:
"Gilmore was executed on January 17, 1977, at 8:07 a.m. by firing squad at Utah State Prison in Draper, Utah.

On the morning at the time of execution, Gilmore was transported to an abandoned cannery behind the prison, which served as its death house. He was strapped to a chair, with a wall of sandbags placed behind him to trap the bullets. Five gunmen, local police officers, stood concealed behind a curtain with five small holes, through which they aimed their rifles. When asked for any last words, Gilmore simply replied, "Let's do it."[10] The Rev. Thomas Meersman, the Roman Catholic prison chaplain, administered the last rites to Gilmore. After the prison physician cloaked him in a black hood, Gilmore uttered his last words to Meersman: "Dominus vobiscum" (Latin, translation: "The Lord be with you.") Meersman replied, "Et cum spiritu tuo" ("And with your spirit.")[11]

In Utah, firing squads consisted of five volunteer law enforcement officers[12][13] from the county in which the conviction of the offender took place. The five executioners were equipped with .30-30-caliber rifles and off-the-shelf Winchester 150-grain (9.7 g) SilverTip ammunition. The condemned was restrained and hooded, and the shots were fired at a distance of 20 feet (6 m), aiming at the chest. " Joe