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STORMINORMAN
Member
And, it is AVAILABLE on Hodgdons!
The "perfect" rifle powder?
- Thread starter STORMINORMAN
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And, it is AVAILABLE on Hodgdons!
There are, undoubtedly, some excellent newer powders out there. I've tried a few of them. I do like ball powders for ease of metering for . 223 loads, especially. But I keep a supply of H-4895 on hand, and could do it all with that if need be. For top-drawer performance, H-4350 is really good in my 6.5 Rem. mags, and in . 30-06. But 4895 would do fine. And I really like Reloader 15 in . 308. But 4895 would do fine. probably not the best choice in my 7 mag, but I could make do if need be.
Lots of interesting ideas on what power is the best for a lot of loaders,
I will also add in my .224 and .308 dia. bullets, that I also have had very good results
with H-380, W-748 and IMR 4320 (short grain) that meter well and have given me
some really great target groups, over the years.
When you shoot so many different bullet weights and at starting to maximum pressure loads
it is very hard to find just one powder that makes every rifle happy.
I always wanted to try 3031 as a go to and penny pincher powder but never got around to trying it.
Back in the 70's I had way too many irons in the fire, to just go shooting or hunting.
There was Golf, Bowling, skiing instructor, water skiing, motorcycles and fishing, did I mention that I was single?
I will also add in my .224 and .308 dia. bullets, that I also have had very good results
with H-380, W-748 and IMR 4320 (short grain) that meter well and have given me
some really great target groups, over the years.
When you shoot so many different bullet weights and at starting to maximum pressure loads
it is very hard to find just one powder that makes every rifle happy.
I always wanted to try 3031 as a go to and penny pincher powder but never got around to trying it.
Back in the 70's I had way too many irons in the fire, to just go shooting or hunting.
There was Golf, Bowling, skiing instructor, water skiing, motorcycles and fishing, did I mention that I was single?
DWalt
Member
IMR 3031 was the very first propellant I used when I started rifle reloading in the early 1960s. The only CF rifles I owned then were a DCM M1903A3 and a Swedish M94 Carbine. If one loads cast lead rifle bullets, somewhat faster propellants, such as 4227 and 2400, are preferable.
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FWIW- Rem . 40XB "Factory Loads" in 3 of mine were: 4895 in a .223 and a 6x47, 3031 in a Swift.
DWalt
Member
I suppose equivalency depends on what flavor of Cordite. Just as with more modern nitro smokeless powders, there were different types of Cordites suited for different applications. Somewhere I have an article that discusses them, but I don't remember where. Possibly it was in one of the earlier editions of the Handoader's Digest. I'll see if I can find it.
If this is about reloading then it's about finding the powder that our barrel, cartridge, and specific bullet likes.
4895 has for years been the got to powder for starting loads in many cartridges. Then experimentation around accuracy, velocity and bullet performance reveals what powder/load works best.
I only have 4-5 powders for the 4-5 cartridges I shoot in hunting and "military" style rifles so accuracy at 300 yards within 5 inches (hand span) is sufficient with aperture sights at my age, 75!
4895 has for years been the got to powder for starting loads in many cartridges. Then experimentation around accuracy, velocity and bullet performance reveals what powder/load works best.
I only have 4-5 powders for the 4-5 cartridges I shoot in hunting and "military" style rifles so accuracy at 300 yards within 5 inches (hand span) is sufficient with aperture sights at my age, 75!
I only loaded in the low to mid range, .223 to .308. Varget was my favorite by far for the accuracy. Short stick powder, and metered pretty well, but I always trickled in for absolute consistency.
VARGET works for ME
In 1961, a Lee Loader in .30-30 and a paper sack with half a pound of DuPont's IMR 4895 was the start for me. For decades it was DuPont powders in rifles, Hercules in handguns and Olin in shotguns.
IMR 4895 will give you a usable load in a bunch of rifle cartridges and a great load in some.
IMR 4895 will give you a usable load in a bunch of rifle cartridges and a great load in some.
BrovoEchoSierra
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I have used both flavors of 4895, with great success in my 3006 and 308 service rifles, and don't plan to change.
Also have enjoyed good accuracy with 3031, 4831, 4064, and 4350, and even 4320.
Depends on what cartridge I am loading for, but they all have their place.
I have shot quite a bit of military surplus 4831 that is older than I am, by a few years. I am just about out of it, but it has worked great in my 6 mm Remington, and in my 7 x 57 Mauser.
I never warmed up to the modern stuff, but I am sure it is great, and maybe even better, than the old stand by's, but I will stick to what I know.
I have a buddy that swears by Vihtavuori powders, and I am sure that they are great, but cost they more than I am willing to pay.
He gets more velocity out of his loads than I do, and I think its probably due to these powders.
I never get my best accuracy at the top, anyway, so I dont push things.
To each his own I suppose.
Also have enjoyed good accuracy with 3031, 4831, 4064, and 4350, and even 4320.
Depends on what cartridge I am loading for, but they all have their place.
I have shot quite a bit of military surplus 4831 that is older than I am, by a few years. I am just about out of it, but it has worked great in my 6 mm Remington, and in my 7 x 57 Mauser.
I never warmed up to the modern stuff, but I am sure it is great, and maybe even better, than the old stand by's, but I will stick to what I know.
I have a buddy that swears by Vihtavuori powders, and I am sure that they are great, but cost they more than I am willing to pay.
He gets more velocity out of his loads than I do, and I think its probably due to these powders.
I never get my best accuracy at the top, anyway, so I dont push things.
To each his own I suppose.
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We have far more powders available today than anyone really has a use for but that's modern marketing and many handloaders seem to equate "new" with "better". That's often not the situation. Since the mid-'60s, I've tried many new powders; sometimes there was a marked advantage (usually from an accuracy perspective) over what I had been using. Well more than half the time, however, the new powder offered nothing over the old, or results were inferior.
Some mourn the loss of a favorite powder when production ceases. With some serious load development trying one or several of the duplicative powders we have available today, I've only seen one instance where a another powder won't work just as well - and that's just for the time being; I probably haven't done sufficient work.
As long as various burn rates were well represented, we could easily do fine with one-third to one-half fewer powders than we presently have.
Some mourn the loss of a favorite powder when production ceases. With some serious load development trying one or several of the duplicative powders we have available today, I've only seen one instance where a another powder won't work just as well - and that's just for the time being; I probably haven't done sufficient work.
As long as various burn rates were well represented, we could easily do fine with one-third to one-half fewer powders than we presently have.
It is nice to have lots of powders available, since many of use like
stick while others like ball powder for rifle loading.
In pistol you have Flake, ball & stick powders to try your hand at,
which can really make a new loaded "crazy" with all the different data and pressures out there
to read up on and put together a safe load.
I did notice the other day when loading some 270 loads, that there was a different "Aroma" coming out of the one pound cans, than when I open a can, used for small arms.
It is all fun .............
and it has been a while since I have heard small shot pellets, roll across my loading table
and bounce on the floor !!
More ammo.
stick while others like ball powder for rifle loading.
In pistol you have Flake, ball & stick powders to try your hand at,
which can really make a new loaded "crazy" with all the different data and pressures out there
to read up on and put together a safe load.
I did notice the other day when loading some 270 loads, that there was a different "Aroma" coming out of the one pound cans, than when I open a can, used for small arms.
It is all fun .............
and it has been a while since I have heard small shot pellets, roll across my loading table
and bounce on the floor !!
More ammo.
Raddoc
Member
I 4064 for calibers from .225 winchester, through my 30-06, and .300 savage. Reminds me, I've got some loading to do...
For .223, There are powders my rifles like better, namely Benchmark and 8208xbr.
Blessings
For .223, There are powders my rifles like better, namely Benchmark and 8208xbr.
Blessings
scooter123
Member
Powder choice can be dependent on the bullet used. I have a home built AR-15 with a Gibbz Arms side charging upper and a 20 inch Shilen 1:8 barrel. With a 68 grain Hornady BTHP loaded with Varget it will shoot under 3/10 MOA, BTW, that is 5 rounds into a hole roughly 1/2 inch in diameter at 100 yards. The same rifle with a round featuring a 60 grain Nosler Ballistic tip loaded with Varget will group around 2 inches at 100 yards. Not nearly as good as one would expect. However load that exact same bullet with CFE223 and groups come in at under 1/2 inch. BTW I load all of my .223 loads to 2800 fps because I see no benefit from wearing out a precision barrel prematurely with 3300 fps "burners" and accuracy is better at 2800 fps.
IMO if you want an all around powder for the .223 caliber I would suggest that CFE223 is a very good choice. While Varget produces the best accuracy with that 68 grain BTHP I have tested this bullet with CFE223 and it will produce consistent groups at 4/10 MOA. In addition CFE223 meters wonderfully so it's a throw and go powder for good accurate plinkers. Varget requires tricking up every single charge.
PS; that CFE bit really does work on cutting down on Copper Fouling and it's proven to be a real time saver when having to clean that Shilen barrel. The only time I shoot the Varget is for a Match, the rest of the time the powder used is CFE223.
IMO if you want an all around powder for the .223 caliber I would suggest that CFE223 is a very good choice. While Varget produces the best accuracy with that 68 grain BTHP I have tested this bullet with CFE223 and it will produce consistent groups at 4/10 MOA. In addition CFE223 meters wonderfully so it's a throw and go powder for good accurate plinkers. Varget requires tricking up every single charge.
PS; that CFE bit really does work on cutting down on Copper Fouling and it's proven to be a real time saver when having to clean that Shilen barrel. The only time I shoot the Varget is for a Match, the rest of the time the powder used is CFE223.
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I have to agree with save the good powder and bullets for the serious games
and shoot the other powders and bullets for practice or for the other family members, that want to join in.
and shoot the other powders and bullets for practice or for the other family members, that want to join in.
I've been a IMR 4064 for years. Very universal. I've got 12#. IMR 4895 would be my 2nd favorite. I don't shoot Magnum cartridges either. I shoot '06, .243 and .223. Its a pain to meter. That's why I spent the money on a RCBS auto measure! Tap in what you want ; measures your load perfectly every time. I prefer stick powder. Burns clean and I've found loads that work beautifully for every cartridge I've mentioned. Packs a .223 case FULL with no signs of pressure. But I shoot heavy bullets in .223. Can't find a Bad load in '06 or .243 using any bullet weight.
Does not give good case fill in '06 or .243 lots of space left but accuracy is always there.
Does not give good case fill in '06 or .243 lots of space left but accuracy is always there.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Which powder do you use in the '06? Other than for my M1 Garand ammo I use 4350 for the 30-06. (H4895 for the M1)
IMR 4064 exclusively. Never owned a Garand, unfortunately. But 4064 falls nicely in the pressure curve for a Garand gas system
If you have a few bolt actions;
I have found the the old slow IMR 4350 works with loads from my
22-250's up to the large 30-06 case, from light target loads all the way
to factory loads, or even more, with good accuracy.
I have two IMR 4895 30-06 test loads to test out with 150 and 180 weight bullets
that are light target loads or maybe hunting loads c/o "Minimum" meat waste
if they meet the accuracy and fps needed in my testings.
It is very hard to slow down a .30 Cal. , high BC boat tail bullet, into the 2500fps area
and I might need a poor BC flat base spitzer 150 gr like the Rem Core-Lokt
to use, if nothing pans out for me.
Just trying to get the BIG 30-06 down to 30-30 & Krag energy, if possible.
I will post what happens, when finished.
I have found the the old slow IMR 4350 works with loads from my
22-250's up to the large 30-06 case, from light target loads all the way
to factory loads, or even more, with good accuracy.
I have two IMR 4895 30-06 test loads to test out with 150 and 180 weight bullets
that are light target loads or maybe hunting loads c/o "Minimum" meat waste
if they meet the accuracy and fps needed in my testings.
It is very hard to slow down a .30 Cal. , high BC boat tail bullet, into the 2500fps area
and I might need a poor BC flat base spitzer 150 gr like the Rem Core-Lokt
to use, if nothing pans out for me.
Just trying to get the BIG 30-06 down to 30-30 & Krag energy, if possible.
I will post what happens, when finished.
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