Model 25-5 Question

[27 Man]

I have a 4" model 25-5 that was shipped in 1980. I cast the Lyman 454424 and use 9 grains of Unique. Accuracy is lacking and I attest a lot of that to the infamous chamber throats of that series of revolvers. Remainder of the problem is on me and my 75 year old cataract eyes. I see that Hornady makes a swaged .454" bullet. Anyone had any luck with these in this series of model 25 revolvers? It's a beautiful gun and I really don't want to get rid of it.

 

[rockquarry]

I have a 4" model 25-5 that was shipped in 1980. I cast the Lyman 454424 and use 9 grains of Unique. Accuracy is lacking and I attest a lot of that to the infamous chamber throats of that series of revolvers. Remainder of the problem is on me and my 75 year old cataract eyes. I see that Hornady makes a swaged .454" bullet. Anyone had any luck with these in this series of model 25 revolvers? It's a beautiful gun and I really don't want to get rid of it.

You can try the .454" Hornady bullets; they may work fine. I have an old #454424 mould from the '60s and the as cast diameter of the bullets is around .456" or .457". I run them through a .461" .45-70 bullet size die in a SAECO sizer lubricator so bullets are only lubed and not sized. These have worked well for me with the oversized throats of a 25-5 that I bought new in 1980.

If you try the Hornady .454" bullets back off to 8 grs. Unique, then 8.5, and then 9. Shoot groups at 25 yards from a benchrest if your eyes are up to it. One of these loads will probably outshoot the others and the soft swaged bullets may "slug up" enough to provide good accuracy. Good luck-

 

[BigMuddy]

I had a 6" 25-5 that had the large throats. Accuracy was pretty bad with all of my lead bullet re-loads. I had some jacketed Hornady XTP loads as well, and expected them to be even worse. Amazingly the JHP's shot great!

When a revolver shoots jacketed bullets well but won't shoot lead, the first thing I look for is thread choke where the barrel screws into the frame. Sure enough that was the case with this gun. I fire lapped the barrel and now this gun shoots 454424's like a target gun, large throats and all.

I had read so much about the large throats in the 25's I assumed that was the problem. Might be worthwhile to dig a little deeper.

Dan

 

[GypsmJim]

My 25-5 does have wide throats and gave me poor accuracy as well. I was using 230 gr RN @ 0.452. Then I switched to a Lee 255 gr 0.454, very similar to the above mentioned Lyman, and it is now a tack driver.

However, after running up and down the gamut of loads I ended up settling on 6.0 Unique. Maybe 8-9 is too high?

 

[scattershot]

I have a 25-5, and I find that jacketed bullets as well as soft lead (swaged) bullets work well in it. As near as I can measure, the throats on mine are .455/.456.

 

[Model19man]

I had a 6" 25-5 that had the large throats. Accuracy was pretty bad with all of my lead bullet re-loads. I had some jacketed Hornady XTP loads as well, and expected them to be even worse. Amazingly the JHP's shot great!

When a revolver shoots jacketed bullets well but won't shoot lead, the first thing I look for is thread choke where the barrel screws into the frame. Sure enough that was the case with this gun. I fire lapped the barrel and now this gun shoots 454424's like a target gun, large throats and all.

I had read so much about the large throats in the 25's I assumed that was the problem. Might be worthwhile to dig a little deeper.

Dan

The throat size is not something I have ever measured. Trying various types of ammo until the accuracy is great is something I do on every gun. It always works.

45 Colt groove diameter is .454" so there is no use using a .452" projectile.

 

[boatbum101]

Size bullets to match cylinder throats . Factory swaged lead 255gr RN made for 45 Colt are often .454-.455 , are soft & have a conical base which will help it fill out to seal bore . If it won't shoot these as stated above check for a choke point .

 

[rockquarry]

The throat size is not something I have ever measured. Trying various types of ammo until the accuracy is great is something I do on every gun. It always works.

45 Colt groove diameter is .454" so there is no use using a .452" projectile.

Size is critical for cast bullets; it isn't with jacketed. Slightly undersized or slightly oversized jacketed bullets may prove to be very accurate. However, a cast bullet with perfect fit and of the right alloy for the load will be just as accurate or more accurate than the jacketed.

 

[rockquarry]

My 25-5 does have wide throats and gave me poor accuracy as well. I was using 230 gr RN @ 0.452. Then I switched to a Lee 255 gr 0.454, very similar to the above mentioned Lyman, and it is now a tack driver.

However, after running up and down the gamut of loads I ended up settling on 6.0 Unique. Maybe 8-9 is too high?

8 grs. Unique is a very mild load with the Lyman #454424 bullet at about 260 grs. I got a chronographed 770 fps from a 6" M25-5 with that load.

6 grs. Unique may be safe, but muzzle velocity would probably be around 600 fps, if that. That's getting close to potential stick-in-the-barrel velocity. But if it works okay for you, no argument from me.

 

[GypsmJim]

8 grs. Unique is a very mild load with the Lyman #454424 bullet at about 260 grs. I got a chronographed 770 fps from a 6" M25-5 with that load.

6 grs. Unique may be safe, but muzzle velocity would probably be around 600 fps, if that. That's getting close to potential stick-in-the-barrel velocity. But if it works okay for you, no argument from me.

As often recommended, I have a stack of different reloading manuals, and refer to all of them when I work up a load. For loading lead boolits, my first goto is the Lyman manual. Right now I have the 45th edition (I can't find a date on it, but my uneducated guess is about late 1970's) and the 49th edition (dated 2008).

The data for 45 Colt, using Unique, pushing a Lyman 454424 boolit made with Lyman #2 alloy is as follows:

Start 6.0 = 590 fps
Max 8.5 = 845 fps

The fine print said the date was developed in a 7 1/2" Blackhawk.

The 2008 version has the 6.0 loading bolded, indicating it is the most accurate load among the various powders listed.

When I got to this load I was amazed on how it improved my 25-5 accuracy. But even more amazing it was also stellar in my Blackhawk, Redhawk and Vaquero.

Until I got the 25-5 I was using 230 gr. RN (the same used in my .45 ACPs) with 8.6 Unique. I have now converted ALL my .45 Colts to 255/6.0.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

8 grs. Unique is a very mild load with the Lyman #454424 bullet at about 260 grs. I got a chronographed 770 fps from a 6" M25-5 with that load.

6 grs. Unique may be safe, but muzzle velocity would probably be around 600 fps, if that. That's getting close to potential stick-in-the-barrel velocity. But if it works okay for you, no argument from me.

What's to much unique in a model 25 with a 250 grain LSWC.

 

[rockquarry]

What's to much unique in a model 25 with a 250 grain LSWC.

The discussion was about too little, not too much. Look at various load data to see what's too much.

 

[Uraldriver]

The current Alliant data on their site shows 9.5 grains of unique as max for a 250 grain bullet. I had a 45 colt Mountain gun years ago that shot jacketed bullets accurately but commercially cast SWC were terrible. The only cast bullet I could get to shoot well were the Remington factory 250 pointed bullet that they sold as a component back then. I've shot the Hornady cowboy bullets and they are pretty accurate as well.

 

[rockquarry]

The current Alliant data on their site shows 9.5 grains of unique as max for a 250 grain bullet. I had a 45 colt Mountain gun years ago that shot jacketed bullets accurately but commercially cast SWC were terrible. The only cast bullet I could get to shoot well were the Remington factory 250 pointed bullet that they sold as a component back then. I've shot the Hornady cowboy bullets and they are pretty accurate as well.

If a jacketed bullet shoots well and a cast doesn't, it's almost always the cast bullet is the wrong diameter for the gun.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My 25-5 does have wide throats and gave me poor accuracy as well. I was using 230 gr RN @ 0.452. Then I switched to a Lee 255 gr 0.454, very similar to the above mentioned Lyman, and it is now a tack driver.

However, after running up and down the gamut of loads I ended up settling on 6.0 Unique. Maybe 8-9 is too high?

I did the same thing. A .452 cast bullet would fall through all the cylinder holes in mine. I got a .454 RCBS 250 gr SWC mold and a .454 sizer and mine started shooting like a good Smith should.

 

[Quailman84]

I've recently gone through this with a recently acquired 25-5 with 8-3/8" barrel and 0.454 to 0.455 throats. Accuracy was dismal with 452 jacketed and cast bullets, so I sized a batch at 454. Going from a 452 bullet to 454 in my 25-5 is the difference between 6" groups at 25 yards and 1-1/2" or better at 25 yards. My bullets are powder coated from a Mihec mold and cast from a soft 98% lead and 2% tin mix. If you can size a batch of your 454424's to 454 I bet you'll see a nice improvement.

I have tried the swaged Hornady bullets before and they were ok but not as good as a properly sized cast bullets.

 

[27 Man]

Matts Bullets lists a 260 grain SWC sized .454". I just ordered 100 of them to try out. Supposed to take two weeks to get here but I'll report back after I test them in my 25-5 and Blackhawk. Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.

 

[jmiles1960]

No intention to steal this thread, but can anyone explain how to measure the "throats" on a 25-5? I bought one several months ago and haven't fired it yet. Would like to understand how to identify the issue on my revolver. Thanks!

 

[27 Man]

Take a .45 caliber bullet which is normally .452" in diameter and drop it down the cylinder holes. If it falls through on its own then your throats are too large. However, as some have stated, it may not be problematic. A more precise method is to use some pin gauges to get an exact measurement. Don't be surprised if they vary slightly. Go ahead and sight it in. You may not have an issue.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

And, unless you shoot lead bullets extensively or exclusively, you may not actually have a problem with accuracy...

Cheers!