.223 dies info help

[rustythread]

As mentioned elsewhere, I'm gearing up to load .223; hopefully 5000 to 7500 rounds, for primary use in semi-auto rifle. Projectile in most will be 55 gr psp. I have available a Dillon 550 and a Rockchucker
All the brass is once-fired GI, and I have an RCBS primer pocket swager combo to fit the Rockchucker.

Used to load pistol rounds, but never rifle rounds.

I'd very much appreciate advice on which dies or accessories I need and which operations should be done on which machine for most safe and efficient processing.

Thanks for your patience and help.

 

[ReloadforFun]

For a semi-auto you may find a small base sizing die of benefit. It depends on your chamber and the brass.

Be certain the cases have no tumbling media remaining in them aqs that will bend the decapping spindle.
.
Redding and RCBS dies are great.

You might look at one of the case prep centers as faster than the primer pocket swager. The ream the primer pocket instead of swaging it, but easy to add aprimer pocket uniforming tool. If you trim cases, and you will need to at some point, the case prep center makes chamfering the case mouth easy.

 

[mmb617]

I've loaded a few thousand .223 rounds so I'll tell you what I use although I don't claim my equipment or methods are the absolute best. I say that because it's been my experience that someone will usually chime in debating any advice given. So I thought I'd get that out of the way up front.

I do all my reloading on a single stage press so I can't give advice on which machine to use for each operation in your case. My press and dies are all Lee but I don't think the brand matters at all.

I use a full length sizing die and the brass has to be lubed before sizing which I don't have to do with pistol rounds. My sizing die also decaps at the same time. Some people like to do the decapping as a separate operation but I don't see why.

After sizing I anneal my brass but that's not necessary if you aren't concerned with getting the maximum number of loadings out of each piece of brass.

If it's the first time being reloaded I swage the primer pockets but that's not necessary after the first reload as the crimp is already removed.

Next I trim the cases. I use the world's finest trimmer for this but there are other products available to do it. I just find this one to be fast and easy.

Then I tumble the cases to remove any remaining lube.

The cases are then ready to be primed, charged and have the bullets seated.

I then use a Lee factory crimp die on them since they will be fired through an AR. I've heard this step isn't necessary if being used in a bolt gun, and some say it's not really needed even with a semi-auto but I feel better doing it and it's quick.

Dies in my case would be the Lee three die set that has sizer, bullet seater and factory crimper. And as mentioned some type of case trim tool is needed. I use the WFT one.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Buy projectiles with NO cannelure. Then use the RCBS black box 223 die set. It has a Small base FL sizer and a taper Crimp die. (You won't have to trim cases this way!) These loaded rounds will be fine in any 223 firearms!

I prefer 50gr Poly tipped bullets for 223. My AR prefers Hornady V-Max over the other 3 brands. My Cooper bolt action prefers Sierra Blitzking. When I had a Remington 700 in 223, it liked Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Ivan

 

[Mike0251]

I clean, lube/resize(RCBS FL)/de-prime on a Lee Classic cast press. Swage primer pockets (Dillon 600), trim OAL and chamfers with a Giraud Triway, clean with an alcohol rinse to remove lube (drys quick), load on a Dillon 550 (Dillon die station 2, Lee stations 3, & 4) with Only a Lee de-prime die at station 1 (in case I missed one I'll know right away).

 

[zeke]

If the brass is once fired from rifle(s) other than your own, would suggest a small base die. At least for the first sizing. Especially if the brass your using is actually bulk brass from military firing range.

Would also consider a dedicated primer pocket swager for that many cases. The RCBS primer swager die works, but is extremely slow and takes some effort.

Not to forget a powered trimmer.

And if at all within budget, would consider a comp seating die. Preferable a Redding with Forster a fairly close second and much more affordable.

5000 rounds is a considerable effort, especially with brass from unknown rifles/full auto's. And alot depends on what you want out of your rounds. Components are very expensive to just making blaster rounds anymore.

 

[Skeet 028]

I use a progressive machine...but there is much more prep to rifle rounds. I deprime all cases and inspect... swage pockets on mil brass. clean cases and inspect/trim again. I spray lube...From that point I load on the Dillon usually in 1000 round batches I do use ball/spherical powders and mostly 55 gr bullets both FMJs and SPs. I put the rounds loose in mil ammo boxes...inspecting as I do. Rifle has a LOT more work to them thamhandgun ammo. BTW I put strips of tape on the ammo box with the load...JIC so you know what they are..BTW both outside and inside on the lid. I try to load rifle stuff in the large batches, so I don't have to do it often...Again rifle is a lot MORE work than handgun. Precision rifle is even more time consuming, and I do much smaller lots of it

 

[rockquarry]

The RCBS primer pocket swager works very well. It's probably slower than the Dillon, but will work as well and is cheaper. Virtually all complaints regarding the RCBS unit come from those who didn't take the time to adjust it properly and/or those who didn't know how to adjust it properly, or those who never used it but heard it didn't work well from one of the above. It takes some fine tuning to set it up perfectly, but once done, it never requires another adjustment - about a ten-minute job at best.

Get a case gauge and drop every sized case and/or loaded round in it. Takes a fraction of a second and assures 100% functioning. I use a JP Enterprises but others may work as well.

You don't need a Lee Factory Crimp Die if you're doing everything right, but proper use of one hurts nothing. As for crimping at all, you needn't crimp cartridge necks for AR-15 use, but if done correctly (lightly), it hurts nothing.

I've yet to see a real need for small base dies, but there are exceptions to everything. Adjust your regular sizing die for full-length sizing and run the brass through a gauge. Occasionally, you'll get second-hand brass or range pickup stuff that was fired in something with an oversize chamber or maybe even a full-auto gun and you won't be able to size it at all. A small base die might work for such brass, but I just throw it in the salvage bucket. Regular use of a small base die with normal brass will likely shorten case life. Using new brass or brass fired in your gun will eliminate the headache of using mixed brass and range pickup stuff. Mixed brass will work, but it will never work better than new or once-fired brass you know the history of.

 

[TheTinMan]

If the brass is once fired from rifle(s) other than your own, would suggest a small base die. At least for the first sizing. Especially if the brass your using is actually bulk brass from military firing range.

Would also consider a dedicated primer pocket swager for that many cases. The RCBS primer swager die works, but is extremely slow and takes some effort.

Not to forget a powered trimmer.

And if at all within budget, would consider a comp seating die. Preferable a Redding with Forster a fairly close second and much more affordable.

5000 rounds is a considerable effort, especially with brass from unknown rifles/full auto's. And alot depends on what you want out of your rounds. Components are very expensive to just making blaster rounds anymore.

I tried several different brands of seating dues before settling on the Forster Benchrest Seater. It is a "better mousetrap" in that there's a sliding sleeve inside to hold the case in perfect alignment for seating. Redding uses Forster's patent now that it's expired and costs more, but I've had very good success with Redding dies also.

For me, a single stage press makes more sense for bottle necked rifle cartridges. I de-prime and full length size, then need to remove the case lube (Redding Imperial Sizing Wax) and inspect the cases. Then I set up a set of tools to 1) measure case to see if it needs trimming, 2) trim if necessary, 3) chamfer and debug case mouth if trimmed, 4) clean primer pocket, 5) lube inside of neck with graphite on brush, and 6) prime on bench mounted Forster Co-Ax priming tool (not necessary for .223 but helpful for larger rifle cartridges).

First time only - I also use a flash hole deburring tool, whether it's new or once-fired brass.

A Wilson case gauge will tell you if the headspace is within spec and if the case is beyond max length; however, it does not check the outside diameter of the case body or case neck. (I did not realize that for years although it's right there in the instructions.) I have not bought one yet, but Sheridan makes a very nice case gauge that does check the whole case and is available with a cutout so you can see where your problem is.

Apparently crimping bottlenecked rifle cartridges is a thing now. It wasn't when I started hand loading almost 20 years ago. A few months ago I called both Hornady and Sierra about this figuring that the top bullet manufacturers would know better than anyone else. The Hornady tech said "you can but you don't have to". The Sierra tech said "crimp if there's a cannelure and don't if there isn't." YMMV and everyone has an opinion…

I firmly believe that every hand loader should have a balance beam scale to check whatever electronic gizmo you use. I do love my RCBS ChargeMaster, but the first one I got wouldn't hold zero for more than 20 minutes. Fortunately I caught it and RCBS couldn't have been better about replacing the damned thing. CHECK WEIGHTS! Always use check weights.

About data - I prefer data directly from the bullet manufacturer as my primary source with powder manufacturer as backup. More data sources is better… except YouScrewed.

 

[SMSgt]

I've reloaded more .223/5.56 Milsup brass than I'd ever care to count for both my Rem 788 .223 and my AR. Never used anything other than a standard .223 RCBS die and never had chambering issues because I needed a small-base die. Never crimped a round for either. You do whatever makes you feel good about your rounds.

 

[WR Moore]

1. You don't/shouldn't need a small base sizing die. The current advice from die makers is you should use them only if you have a smaller than SAMMI chamber. That eliminates the need for use in self loading rifles.

2. If processing once fired military brass, buy a Redding carbide primer pocket uniformer and some type of electric drill/screwdriver to power it. It seems most post 2009 primer pockets are a wee bit shallow.

3. A power case trimmer is a really, really good idea. Lyman makes one at reasonable prices.

4. Even if you don't use the Dillon to load your ammo, buy their die set-and a case gauge. Dillon includes a carbide expander ball in the size die and the taper crimp die in the set. READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON DIE SETUP!!!! You'll need the case gauge to set the sizer to produce the proper case head to shoulder dimension. Setting OAL is done by moving the die up and down, NOT by messing with the seating stem.

5. You don't specify brand/type of rifle. The AR carbine is very violent in it's operating cycle. A proper taper crimp is highly suggested.

My personal method of processing once fired military brass is to deprime separately then swage the crimp, uniform the primer pocket and then clean the cases with an ultra sonic cleaner. Much faster than tumbling, but you do have to let the cases dry before going onward.

The cases then get sized, washed to remove lube and after drying, get trimmed. They're then ready to load. If I'm feeling really OCD, before loading they'll get buffed in corn cob media to remove sizing die marks.

 

[rustythread]

I have ordered a Dillon 3-die set and the Dillon conversion kit for the 550.
I already have a 40-lb or so carton of the 55gr psps, all the primers and cases, and several pounds of powder. Still cogitating on lube and cleanup.
Ordering some '50s rock-n-roll CDs for the player in the shop for swaging music.
Most of the rounds will be for a Steyr AUG USA with a Trijicon 3-9 scope. Laissez les bon temps roulez!
Doubtless more questions later; thanks. all, for the info and suggestions. so far.

 

[Gamecock]

Small base dies are to fix a problem. If you don't have the problem, don't get them.

I tried them, got the dirtiest brass I've ever seen.

 

[zeke]

Small base dies are to fix a problem. If you don't have the problem, don't get them.

I tried them, got the dirtiest brass I've ever seen.

You may not recognise you have a problem with 5000 cases from unknown rifles till some get jammed. Course then you can buy a body die to try and resize a loaded round, just use the problems to practice clearing your rifle, or try to cull the problem cases out. Or you can check every piece of brass after sizing, before loading. This wasn't a big deal till manufacturers started tightening up their chambers for accuracy.

Given the op is using an Aug lessons his probability of having a problem. And personally have had to use a body die to resize over 500 loaded rounds that used range pick ups, and none were fired through a machine gun.

Have a friend that bought one of Rugers Ar's when they first came out. He started with well known commercial reloads, but it kept jamming. Told him to try brand new factory rounds, which worked fine. Turns out it would only load new brass, or sb sized brass due to tight chamber.

If using only brass that were fired through your rifle or rifles with more generous sized chambers, the problem is unlikely.

 

[Racer X]

this is all great info!!!!!

 

[WR Moore]

When you work metal, there's almost always a certain amount of "spring back" where the metal tries to go back to it's previous state. This can happen with cartridge cases too. One issue with once fired military brass can be the chamber it was originally fired in. "Generous" dimension chambers in the original firearms (the M249 in particular) can cause noticeably difficult sizing, especially easy to spot if you're not punching the spent primer out through the crimp. The DOD-and their suppliers-are much more concerned with weapon function than the condition of the spent cartridge case. Minimum dimension chambers are a problem, maximum dimension-or a wee bit over-aren't.

If you can, culling out those cases that give you a workout when sizing and checking them with a cartridge gauge can save you a lot of future problems. If you get a firearm that only accepts new ammo/small base resized (precision bolt guns excepted*) I'd send it back for a different barrel.

* I do have a small base body die to make sure all the rounds for my varmint rifle chamber easily. Not every case needs it, but enough do to make it a regular part of my first loading case prep for that rifle only. I chambered the barrel, so I've only myself to blame.

 

[Skeet 028]

At one time mot or quite a bit of mulitary chambers were a bit on the large size...they needed to work. I think we are still in that time...a bit anyway

 

[zeke]

At one time mot or quite a bit of military chambers were a bit on the large size...they needed to work. I think we are still in that time...a bit anyway

Number of years ago bought a small batch of military once fired 308. Took 3 resizings to allow them to chamber and they got a soon to separate ring on the next resizing. Lot of work for one firing. There must be lots that are just fine, but never bought anymore of the 308. Had much better luck with the military 223. Once tried to resize 223 brass from an ar 223 pistol, but quickly stopped the effort. Imo the brass was being yanked earlier from the chamber causing it to swell and stretch to make it not worth the effort.

Have a 308 semi that needs to have brass fired by other semi's owned sb resized. It is accurate enough that am unwilling to mess with it, and willing to meet it's requirements.

Unfortunately having a load that works in various types of rifles of the same caliber can be more effort. Like always depends on an individual's purpose.

 

[4barrel]

I have ordered a Dillon 3-die set and the Dillon conversion kit for the 550.
I already have a 40-lb or so carton of the 55gr psps, all the primers and cases, and several pounds of powder. Still cogitating on lube and cleanup.
Ordering some '50s rock-n-roll CDs for the player in the shop for swaging music.
Most of the rounds will be for a Steyr AUG USA with a Trijicon 3-9 scope. Laissez les bon temps roulez!
Doubtless more questions later; thanks. all, for the info and suggestions. so far.

I have your setup -Dillon and RCBS single stage With jamming music and use Hornady or Sierra 55 grain spitzer for target loads with Varget or 748. With clean brass I resize and deprime with LEE resize lube on the RCBS single stage. Then swage it all with the Dillon. I hate trimming and trash anything long. <I have a Dillon power trimmer> I measure the brass and put in different bags according to length.
Then I prime them with the RCBS. Starting with the Dillon powder drop everything is ready for one pull to complete. These will do a 1'' group at 200 yards if you do your part. I load one grain under max. I know I am doing extra work but I like accurate bullets. I prime all bottleneck rifle cases with single stage.

 

[sarg1c]

I've loaded a few thousand .223 rounds so I'll tell you what I use although I don't claim my equipment or methods are the absolute best. I say that because it's been my experience that someone will usually chime in debating any advice given. So I thought I'd get that out of the way up front.

I do all my reloading on a single stage press so I can't give advice on which machine to use for each operation in your case. My press and dies are all Lee but I don't think the brand matters at all.

I use a full length sizing die and the brass has to be lubed before sizing which I don't have to do with pistol rounds. My sizing die also decaps at the same time. Some people like to do the decapping as a separate operation but I don't see why.

After sizing I anneal my brass but that's not necessary if you aren't concerned with getting the maximum number of loadings out of each piece of brass.

If it's the first time being reloaded I swage the primer pockets but that's not necessary after the first reload as the crimp is already removed.

Next I trim the cases. I use the world's finest trimmer for this but there are other products available to do it. I just find this one to be fast and easy.

Then I tumble the cases to remove any remaining lube.

The cases are then ready to be primed, charged and have the bullets seated.

I then use a Lee factory crimp die on them since they will be fired through an AR. I've heard this step isn't necessary if being used in a bolt gun, and some say it's not really needed even with a semi-auto but I feel better doing it and it's quick.

Dies in my case would be the Lee three die set that has sizer, bullet seater and factory crimper. And as mentioned some type of case trim tool is needed. I use the WFT one.

Glad you mentioned the crimp die, especialy when loading for an automatic....