Hearing protection merely delays tinnitus?

[tomhenry]

Yet another thread re hearing protection on a sister forum.
Earmuffs and Ear Plugs worn together | The High Road

The best protection is plugs and muffs. But with plugs and muffs, I'm not able to hear game walking through the fall leaves, for example. Even with my new Howard Leight Impact Sport Bolt and custom gel pads. Yet, to use only the muffs still allows damaging noise to enter my ears.

For example, take the AR15. Caliber .223, 55 gr bullet; 18 inch barrel: produces noise level at 155.5 dB. Howard Leight Impact Sport Bolt: NRR 22dB. From the formula below (in the referenced thread): 22-7/2= actual NRR = 7.5. 155.5 – (actual NRR) 7.5 = 148dB noise reaching your ears even with these electronic muffs.

From the research I've seen, sudden noise 140dB and above will cause instant hearing damage. Very disconcerting if one hunts with only electronic muffs. And if one would like to hear ambient noise, he'll only hunt with electronic muffs. And that doesn't even take into consideration the difficulty of cheek weld. Do all us gunners have hearing damage?

The following is a post from the above linked thread. It seems to underscore that with just the muffs, even at 30 NRR, with a lot of common guns, damage is inevitable. Or, am I misunderstanding? Your input is appreciated as I already have tinnitus and would like to avoid further damage.

[Begin quote] My ears have tinnitus (ringing) from shooting, even though I've always worn earpro.

You will see NRR ratings on ear pro. This is very misleading and the whole concept of decibels is very unintuitive. Even with an NRR of 30 on my HL Impact PROs, hearing damage will occur over time. The formula for NRR is very stupid, but for some reason it's the convention. Take your NRR and subract 7, then divide it by 2. So, (30 - 7)/2 = 11.5 db reduction from the Impact PROs.

When you double up with earplugs too, you simply add 5 to the NRR total. Again, this is the formula set out many decades ago. So my inner earplugs are NRR 21, but they only count as 5 using the formula. So (35 - 7)/2 = 14db reduction.

A gunshot of 158db lessened by 14db (with double protection) is down to 140db. Every 3db reduction is roughly a halving of sound pressure. So a 140db noise is over 9x quieter than a 158db sound. I try and run suppressors as much as possible nowadays. A suppressed gunshot is typically in the 130db range. So, 130 minus 11-14db is just under the 'accepted' threshold of 120db being 'hearing safe' for sudden short sounds. Cumulative sounds over 120db will degrade your hearing over time and can cause tinnitus.

A good source for this material is here: Understanding Noise Reduction Ratings (NRR) - Listen Technologies

 

[MRB1]

Don't take hearing protection for granted. In my younger years of being invincible and paying no attention to noises like jet engines, shooting, heavy equipment and LOUD music, my hearing is shot. Even with hearing aids, I can barely pick up normal conversation. My bad. Tinnitus is a good sign the damage has already begun. Ignoring hearing and eyesight is just plain stupid.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Audiologists are your friends.

I knew early on that my ears were going to be my livelihood so I protected them. The human cochlea contains on the order of 3,500 inner hair cells and 12,000 outer hair cells at birth. As mentioned above, if you feel sharp pain from a high SPL (sound pressure level) damage has been done. The hairs don't regenerate or repair themselves.

I have known and know many in my industry that suffer from tinnitus and I feel for them. I wish you well.

 

[LVSteve]

I'm not seeing the basis for this "subtract 7" element in the calculation. What did I miss? Is it the average difference between those two columns of different standards.

 

[oink]

I have pretty bad tinnitus. I'm sure a good bit is from guns. The standard issue at the range was foam ear plugs. I think a lot is also from police radios and sirens.

My experience with police radios is that you have to have them fairly loud in the best of circumstances to understand clearly over normal background and road noise.

My experience with most police sirens is they were on the roof of the car and when activated radiated straight down into the interior of the vehicle. They were quite loud in the interior.

When running code you also have to stay in constant contact by radio, which you can no longer hear over the siren. Then there's the added road and engine noise from the cop car running harder than normal, plus they are louder anyhow. Unless you turn the radio up much louder than normal you can't hear the radio at all in those circumstances. It was really an unsatisfactory arrangement.

Add in time spent on multi engine open patrol boats with their engine and wind noises.

I guess it's a miracle I can hear at all. The tinnitus never stops although I can ignore it sometimes. I think LE agencies can and should do a lot better on hearing protection. I hope that's improving.

My dad, a Lt. with an infantry (79th) cannon company, fired 105s throughout WWII without hearing protection, plus being subjected to enemy fire. By the time he was my age he was as deaf as a post. I can hear great by comparison, so I won't complain too much.

Yeah, wear as much protection as you can.

 

[Mercury]

I'm not seeing the basis for this "subtract 7" element in the calculation. What did I miss? Is it the average difference between those two columns of different standards.

I agree, the basis for subtracting 7 is not explained. The article cites constant noise, so I think that you only need to subtract 7 if the noise is constant. Gunfire is not, so that step may be able to be deleted from the formula.

Either way, we know that gunfire will damage your hearing. So, why is it so difficult and expensive to get a muffler (suppressor) for our guns?

 

[mckenney99]

Oink
When I first joined the patrol, our 3 radios, along with my personal 30 channel scanner and sirens were set up exactly like you described. When they finally started to do periodic full physicals on all of us, they found that most of us had more hearing damage in our right ears, which kind of makes sense. Due to our patrol area and manpower issues, it was not unusual to have to drive 25 minutes clear across the county with the siren blaring directly overhead the whole time. Eventually the union and the state got on the same page and got the sirens moved to the front grills or push bars (for a while), but the damage to us older guys was already done. I also wonder about the possibility of damage from the near constant high frequency audio doppler from the Radar units that we ran 8 hrs a day.

I have always worn hearing protection when shooting on an active range, but there have been a couple of times where the plugs came out or the muffs got knocked off and I felt the pain afterwards. At times the crickets/Tinnitus can almost be maddening, but at other times it doesn't seem to be as bad. Not sure what the explanation is for that.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I spent my hitch on flight lines and quickly learned to keep these in my pocket.



I borrowed them when I got out and they accompanied me when I hit the road as a troubadour. Whenever I forgot to take them to a gig I would substitute two cigarette butts. The invention of wireless in-ear monitors has undoubtedly saved the hearing of a lot of folks on stage or in the wings.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

According to the US Veterans Administration the leading cause cited for disability compensation is hearing loss/tinnitus.

It seems that small arms fire, artillery, mortars, rockets, aircraft engines, and general mayhem all seem to contribute.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Led Zep 10 rows back darn near center stage. I can see how the smart musicians (& concert goers) use some type of ear protection. Also, I can't even reach for one of my harmonicas and Angel Dog knows her ears are gonna hurt. I don't do that to my dog if she's in the same room as me. It ain't singin', it's whining because it hurts her ears. Of course it's not my poor playing!!

 

[chief38]

Shooting guns, loud music when I was young, loud machinery, hunting without ear protection many years ago is what got me. Today I wear ear protection when doing anything with loud noise and double protection at the range. I carry a package of plugs in my car and have a set in my pocket most of the time. Unfortunately, this practice was followed after much damage was done. I try and inform others however that mostly falls "on deaf ears" - no pun intended!

 

[steelslaver]

I was told I would "get use to the noise" and I did. I can hardly hear any of it now.

 

[jaguargolf]

My former FIL has severe hearing loss, maybe service related. His first granddaughter is a soprano opera singer. He has not been able to hear the high notes since she was a preteen.
The opera singer wears hearing protection when she practices. When she would come home from college and graduate school and practiced we had to open the windows to let the sound out. She never used a microphone when performing.

 

[twodog max]

I have always worn muffs when shooting at a range at least since my early teens 60+ years ago. Never while hunting and the one or two shots hunting at this point make little difference.
IMO my hearing loss is mostly due to hours of using diesel tractors and dozers even with protection. Hours of that sound hammering away wears on you. I even had some occasions when after a long day using diesel equipment I would step off the machine and be dizzy. For me shooting was the least damaging activity.

 

[stu1ritter]

The VA rates me as profoundly deaf (minus 95dB @ 2500Hz) and I receive disability for that. What the VA does not cover/include is the tinnitus as they have no way to measure it. I shot on several Army pistol teams from 1959-1964. The Second Army team at Ft. Jackson, SC used an indoor range that was in a quonset hut. If you can imagine ten 45's shooting rapid fire inside a steel drum, that was it. There was no issued hearing protection then and we didn't understand hearing damage. We would take a couple of live rounds and put them in our ears to cut the pain down. The tinnitus resulting from this damage sounds like an ambulance siren about 2 blocks away but sometimes, just like it's right outside, 24/7/365. Over time you get used to it, more or less and your brain learns to ignore it. The sound of ocean surf in the background is a life saver sometimes.

The VA provided me with moulded ear plugs and I use the best noise reduction muffs I can find, renewing them every two years or so. Makes shooting manageable at my club with an indoor range.

Stu

 

[TXBryan]

I have tinnitus but likely not caused by gun reports. If you like the sound of crickets and cicadas mine can be tolerated but at times it's a literal pain. Not really the same as "hearing loss" as I can still detect pretty obscure audio according to audiology tests. My ENT specialist thinks it's from too many aspirin for too long a time. I don't have any concept of silence.

My wife and I had tests at the same time because we were having trouble "hearing" one another. Our audiologist's opinion, after the tests, was that we were simply not listening to one another. We worked on that and got better.

My brother, retired from what I call "special forces" in the U.S. Air Force, has documented hearing loss that has resulted in some disability compensation. He played in various jazz bands for the Air Force, including the Airmen of Note - the Glenn Miller Band - playing baritone sax. The woodwinds are seated in front of the horns (trumpets and trombones mostly) and 24 years of that took a toll.

 

[Onomea]

I've told this story here before, but it's apropos: I once shared a cab with a Nobel Prize winner who remarked to me that hearing loss as we age is God's way of preserving monogamy.

 

[16thVACav]

I agree, the basis for subtracting 7 is not explained.

The reason for modifying the Noise Reduction Rating (NRR) is to change the NRR from a "laboratory" rating to a "real world" rating. As an example, a pair of foam plugs may have an NRR of 30, which is based on consistent, repeatable measurements in a lab. In the real world, however, users of that plug have varying ear canal sizes, varying skills in properly inserting and using the plug, and a host of other variables that reduce the amount of protection.

The stated NRR is the most protection you could possibly get. Most people will get less, and the formula simply gives you an approximation of what you will actually get.

 

[tomhenry]

The reason for modifying the Noise Reduction Rating (NRR) is to change the NRR from a "laboratory" rating to a "real world" rating. As an example, a pair of foam plugs may have an NRR of 30, which is based on consistent, repeatable measurements in a lab. In the real world, however, users of that plug have varying ear canal sizes, varying skills in properly inserting and using the plug, and a host of other variables that reduce the amount of protection.

The stated NRR is the most protection you could possibly get. Most people will get less, and the formula simply gives you an approximation of what you will actually get.

Actually, the formula NRR-7/2 is the formula for constant noise. Like, operating a bull dozer for 8 hours. I have been repeatedly told, on other forums, it doesn't apply to short duration/instantaneous noise.

But nobody seems to know what/if there is another formula that might supersede "gun shot dB minus hearing protection NRR equals dB noise at your ears."

 

[dmn57]

Yeah, as I read this thread my ears are have the steady buzzing/ringing that is almost always present. Sometimes it's hardly noticeable, sometimes, like right now, it's loud and clear. For the most part I've conditioned myself to ignore it. As far as hearing in general, with no background interference I do quite well, but get me in a crowded restaurant, etc., I'd be better off trying to read lips. I'm now paying the price for years of shooting, various stints in construction and factory jobs early on, and of course that dang devil music of my youth.