I don't think the 30SC was intended to change anyone's mind about switching from their current 9 or 40 cal choice of carry piece. I think it was specifically intended for new shooters, especially the ladies and elderly that were buying their first handgun for home protection or their first and likely only ccw tool. The entire S&W EZ line of products are specifically targeting this segment of the market. Given the sales numbers it's hard to argue that they are wrong.
.30supercarry
- Thread starter redram99
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DonD
Member
Not interested, the 9mm works just fine, will probably be years before the 30 Supercarry ammo is anywhere near as available as 9mm as N4KVE remarked.
It's a good round but I doubt that it can completely match the 9mm, load for load.
I have four 9mms semi autos, all of which I like, I'm not going to buy another that is somewhat similar. Don
Model 15-4ever
Member
The amount of hate piled on this cartridge, by people who neither own nor shoot it, but obviously feel threatened by it in some bizarre fashion, is very amusing.
I've had the S&W Shield EZ in .30 SC since it came out. I rather like it. In function it's basically a high-pressure long-cased .32 ACP Magnum. Bullets are .312". The round requires a substantial locked-breech pistol of the same size as equivalent 9mm pistols.
Bullets being lighter than 9mm - 100 to 115 grains - in the same guns there is somewhat less recoil than 9mm, although the muzzle blast is somewhat greater. The case being smaller in diameter, magazine capacity is increased somewhat, although in the case of the EZ, the magazine baseplate is made a tad longer to bring capacity to 10 rounds.
Not sure what is so upsetting about that, or why innovation and new cartridges make certain people angry. If you don't want/need/like it, you're not being forced to buy it.
Accuracy is a function of the cartridge/firearm/shooter... and while the EZ is not known for being match-grade, it is not inaccurate either. The Federal American Eagle 100 grain FMJ practice load will not be winning any National Matches. Nonetheless, groups with the Remington and Federal JHP loads are right at 1.5" @ 50 feet. More than adequate for self-defense. I shot 100% with it on an old-school police-style qualification course using the FBI Q target, and the 6 rounds at 50 yards prone were all well-centered.
I have not had a single malfunction over the course of 900+ rounds through two of these guns, and that includes my own handloaded ammunition.
Is the round good for self-defense? Of course it is. The Remington and Federal 100 grain JHP loads average 1200 fps for 320 ft lbs of energy. That is more energy than most .38 Special +P loads, which have been shown to be quite effective in many LE shootings. My testing in ballistic gel was quite satisfactory, with both the Remington and Federal 100 grain JHP loadings penetrating 19-20" and expanding to .55-.56". Since the Remington is much less expensive, I use that as a defensive load.
The Hornady 100 grain FTX ammunition is loaded a bit lighter and offers less blast and recoil, but still giving energy figures equal to .38 Special +P, and penetration of 15.5" and expansion to .48".
It's true this cartridge was heavily hyped - but so is every new cartridge, firearm, scope, etc. Yet, people are SHOCKED that the gun industry uses marketing techniques to sell stuff and make money. It has ALWAYS been that way - it's more "in your face" today because everything is more in your face in the social media age. This ain't the bygone days of a monthly magazine that you read cover to cover 6 times over before you were able to buy new content next month. And those old writers were all bought and paid for with guns and hunting trips, just the same as the new media.
Folks, guns last a long time if properly cared for. That's not a good recipe for continuing new sales, unless you can convince people they need to replace their unbroken gun with a new one. Again, this is not a new phenomenon in the industry.
One of the marketing hypes right now is - MORE BULLETS! Despite the fact that the Rules of Threes really hasn't changed. I watched a video today of a LE shooting in which the officer dumped an entire gun load of 15+ rounds into a single suspect. Unknown how many of those rounds hit the latter, but if you have more rounds, you often end up shooting more rounds if you are undisciplined, panicked, or inaccurate. Back in the day, 2-3 rounds would have sufficed... and still do, as the Rule of Threes by and large still holds true.
In any event, the 10 rounds of .30 SC in the EZ Shield are plenty, and certainly accurate and powerful enough for self-defense. The pistol shoots quite well. Viva la difference!
PS. I'm also still enjoying all my many other guns and cartridges, including the magnificent .45 GAP!
I've had the S&W Shield EZ in .30 SC since it came out. I rather like it. In function it's basically a high-pressure long-cased .32 ACP Magnum. Bullets are .312". The round requires a substantial locked-breech pistol of the same size as equivalent 9mm pistols.
Bullets being lighter than 9mm - 100 to 115 grains - in the same guns there is somewhat less recoil than 9mm, although the muzzle blast is somewhat greater. The case being smaller in diameter, magazine capacity is increased somewhat, although in the case of the EZ, the magazine baseplate is made a tad longer to bring capacity to 10 rounds.
Not sure what is so upsetting about that, or why innovation and new cartridges make certain people angry. If you don't want/need/like it, you're not being forced to buy it.
Accuracy is a function of the cartridge/firearm/shooter... and while the EZ is not known for being match-grade, it is not inaccurate either. The Federal American Eagle 100 grain FMJ practice load will not be winning any National Matches. Nonetheless, groups with the Remington and Federal JHP loads are right at 1.5" @ 50 feet. More than adequate for self-defense. I shot 100% with it on an old-school police-style qualification course using the FBI Q target, and the 6 rounds at 50 yards prone were all well-centered.
I have not had a single malfunction over the course of 900+ rounds through two of these guns, and that includes my own handloaded ammunition.
Is the round good for self-defense? Of course it is. The Remington and Federal 100 grain JHP loads average 1200 fps for 320 ft lbs of energy. That is more energy than most .38 Special +P loads, which have been shown to be quite effective in many LE shootings. My testing in ballistic gel was quite satisfactory, with both the Remington and Federal 100 grain JHP loadings penetrating 19-20" and expanding to .55-.56". Since the Remington is much less expensive, I use that as a defensive load.
The Hornady 100 grain FTX ammunition is loaded a bit lighter and offers less blast and recoil, but still giving energy figures equal to .38 Special +P, and penetration of 15.5" and expansion to .48".
It's true this cartridge was heavily hyped - but so is every new cartridge, firearm, scope, etc. Yet, people are SHOCKED that the gun industry uses marketing techniques to sell stuff and make money. It has ALWAYS been that way - it's more "in your face" today because everything is more in your face in the social media age. This ain't the bygone days of a monthly magazine that you read cover to cover 6 times over before you were able to buy new content next month. And those old writers were all bought and paid for with guns and hunting trips, just the same as the new media.
Folks, guns last a long time if properly cared for. That's not a good recipe for continuing new sales, unless you can convince people they need to replace their unbroken gun with a new one. Again, this is not a new phenomenon in the industry.
One of the marketing hypes right now is - MORE BULLETS! Despite the fact that the Rules of Threes really hasn't changed. I watched a video today of a LE shooting in which the officer dumped an entire gun load of 15+ rounds into a single suspect. Unknown how many of those rounds hit the latter, but if you have more rounds, you often end up shooting more rounds if you are undisciplined, panicked, or inaccurate. Back in the day, 2-3 rounds would have sufficed... and still do, as the Rule of Threes by and large still holds true.
In any event, the 10 rounds of .30 SC in the EZ Shield are plenty, and certainly accurate and powerful enough for self-defense. The pistol shoots quite well. Viva la difference!
PS. I'm also still enjoying all my many other guns and cartridges, including the magnificent .45 GAP!
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CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Doing a little math I calculate that the actual area of the cross section of the entrance wound by the various calibers is as follows:
.45 .159" Cost per round $.475
.9mm .0989" cost per round $.265
.30 superduper .0769" cost per round $.46
and for comparison, the .22 RF .0380" $0769
Data indicates that you would have to shoot someone twice with the 9mm to achieve a bit over the cross sectional perforation (the "csp") of the .45; twice by the 30 super duper to come in just under the CSP of the .45.
The .22 on the other hand requires four shots to achieve a .152 CSP.
Considering the actual cost per round od each CPR divided by CSP we get the DCPAOH (dollar cost per area of hole-in inches) of each cartridge as follows:
.45 2.9245
9mm 2.679
30 super duper 5.98
.22rf 2.023
So ot get comparible hope size with each calibre the cost would be as follows:
.45 2.9245
9mm (shoot twice) 5.358
30 super duper (again shoot twice) a whopping 11.96
.22 rf (four shots) a surprising 8.092.
Clearly as far as cost per cross section of hole favors heavily the .45 ACP by almost a factor of two-which coincides with the averafe twice te capacity of the magazines holding 9mm over the .45.
Couple that with the increased cabbon footprint and pollution othe increased propellant gasses and scrap led, the .45 is clearly the best choice both from an ecological as well as a hole point of view.
I get paid to know this stuff.
.45 .159" Cost per round $.475
.9mm .0989" cost per round $.265
.30 superduper .0769" cost per round $.46
and for comparison, the .22 RF .0380" $0769
Data indicates that you would have to shoot someone twice with the 9mm to achieve a bit over the cross sectional perforation (the "csp") of the .45; twice by the 30 super duper to come in just under the CSP of the .45.
The .22 on the other hand requires four shots to achieve a .152 CSP.
Considering the actual cost per round od each CPR divided by CSP we get the DCPAOH (dollar cost per area of hole-in inches) of each cartridge as follows:
.45 2.9245
9mm 2.679
30 super duper 5.98
.22rf 2.023
So ot get comparible hope size with each calibre the cost would be as follows:
.45 2.9245
9mm (shoot twice) 5.358
30 super duper (again shoot twice) a whopping 11.96
.22 rf (four shots) a surprising 8.092.
Clearly as far as cost per cross section of hole favors heavily the .45 ACP by almost a factor of two-which coincides with the averafe twice te capacity of the magazines holding 9mm over the .45.
Couple that with the increased cabbon footprint and pollution othe increased propellant gasses and scrap led, the .45 is clearly the best choice both from an ecological as well as a hole point of view.
I get paid to know this stuff.
I have to agree with most of the replies to this Post...the .30 Super Carry was not needed. It sits somewhere between a .380 and 9mm- fairly soft shooting and can carry more rounds than a comparable 9mm. So what? To me it's a boutique caliber, like the 5.7x28. Apologies to any Forum members that really like the .30SC or 5.7, but I think that you folks are really in the minority of shooters. From what I've read, only S&W and Nighthawk Custom are manufacturers of .30SC handguns, and it doesn't look like there are any other manufacturers ready to jump on the bandwagon. If you do own and shoot a .30SC, there may be a lot of discount ammo on the market soon!
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That's like saying a 308 sits somewhere between 223 and 30-06. It's true but implies it is about half way between the other two cartridges but is in reality much closer to the more powerful one.
Schadenfreude is a German term used to describe taking gleeful joy in the failure or misfortune of others. It perfectly describes what I see in a lot of 30 SC threads.
Deciding the modest increase in capacity and small reduction in recoil is not worth the small loss of power and significantly higher cost of ammo compared to 9mm I get. Hoping the 30 SC is a total failure and dies quickly because it doesn't fit your needs I do not.
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It makes me scratch my head—but it sadly seems to be very prevalent. People seem to be quick to develop deep religious convictions around technologies ... and then they seek out information that supports their biases (ergo the term: "confirmation bias"). I guess they hope that the strength of their convictions—however unfounded they are—comes across as expertise.
I guess that's easier than being open to new ideas.
Sticking with tried-and-trued technologies can be a good thing—especially when one's life is on the line and success or failure can be determined by the smallest of factors.
But most of the shooting sports aren't about life-and-death. And if we never tried new things, we'd still be shooting musket balls out of smooth bore flintlocks.
So far I've found the .30 SC round to be very pleasant to shoot. I haven't done any ballistic gelatin work with it yet, so my jury is still out on how it would compare to a good .38 Special or 9mm defensive round (which are the two that I most commonly carry). That said, the reviews I've read from sources that I consider to be reputable show that it performs comparably.
Whether .30 SC will take the place of 38 Special and 9mm (my two preferred carry rounds) is anyone's guess at this point, but I'm nowhere close to ruling it out either.
Mike
OldGoat
Member
It is kinda fun and amusing - as in entertaining - to read some of the comments by very opinionated, but otherwise good shooting sports enthusiasts (and law abiding citizens) over some topics like the new 30SC.
If you want to see a topic that gets a REAL trap shooter going, just mention you had fun shooting skeet.
I got permanently banned on another forum when I posted that a particular discussion reminded me of the therapy session from the movie "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest".
So, Lighten up, Francis .... It is a hobby - have fun.
If you want to see a topic that gets a REAL trap shooter going, just mention you had fun shooting skeet.
I got permanently banned on another forum when I posted that a particular discussion reminded me of the therapy session from the movie "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest".
So, Lighten up, Francis .... It is a hobby - have fun.
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+1 on lighten up Francis. If someone wants to buy a .30SC pistol and shoot it, more power to them- it's their right, their decision, and their money. However, with that said, I just talked with my son who manages several gun stores/ranges in Florida. He says that based on their clientele, they only sell a few boxes of .30SC ammo every month, and only stock the S&W .30SC Shield EZ. Just sayin'...
Paul in Nevada
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I think it would be kinda cool in the new FPC.
The .30 and.32 is why I would go broke making firearms.
I thought (well still do think) the .32 Magnum would be more popular than it is. Lighter recoil, addition of one round (6 .32's vs. 5 .38's in J-Frame) and reliable bullet expansion is a excellent self-defense revolver. It is basically the 32-20 in the easier to reload straight wall case. Yet it has never really caught on.
The Luger way back then originally was chambered for a .30 caliber bullet. Then someone decided that it wasn't big and powerful enough so along came the 9mm Luger.
So now 100 something plus years gun and ammunition manufacturers are back to a .30 caliber semi-automatic pistol for self-defense use. The main question is will the Internet naysayers and gun 'riters snub it the same way they did with the .32 Magnum.
I thought (well still do think) the .32 Magnum would be more popular than it is. Lighter recoil, addition of one round (6 .32's vs. 5 .38's in J-Frame) and reliable bullet expansion is a excellent self-defense revolver. It is basically the 32-20 in the easier to reload straight wall case. Yet it has never really caught on.
The Luger way back then originally was chambered for a .30 caliber bullet. Then someone decided that it wasn't big and powerful enough so along came the 9mm Luger.
So now 100 something plus years gun and ammunition manufacturers are back to a .30 caliber semi-automatic pistol for self-defense use. The main question is will the Internet naysayers and gun 'riters snub it the same way they did with the .32 Magnum.
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More silly to believe in one shot stopping power myth.
cmj8591
Member
It's really silly believing in those laws of physics.
cmj8591
Member
Skeet shooting is for people who aren't very good at trap.
OldGoat
Member
Oh Oh ...I was afraid of that. (wink)
Paul in Nevada
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Most people arguing on gun forums have no more than a rudimentary understanding of those laws, and we tend to cherry pick stats and data that supports our own prejudices. Real world data tends to frustrate those preconceptions.
Here is one article where the author compiled data from many real world shootings to tried and correlate stopping power with the cartridges used. The results suggest that below 44 mag, you can pretty much pick your favorite cartridge and be satisfied. I see a few places where you could criticize the author's methodology, and the results might tell us more about the shooters than the bullet. At least someone actually went out and found the data and attempted to draw conclusions from it.
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smithra_66
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Ehhh, I've done a lot of shooting. I know that a 45 Auto with 230 grain bullets hits harder than any 9mm.
It's just a simple eye test.
