PC Model 627 5" or 686-3 6" for daily shooter?

Mitch95

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Hi All-

Looking to purchase a range shooter that will be consistently putting .38 and some .357 down range.

This will be a part of my collection that will likely be shot wayy more than any of my other smiths in this caliber.

Based on pricing I'm looking at around the same price for either revolver.

Would be helpful to hear suggestions from people as this would be potentially my first modern smith revolver if i were to go with the 627.

I like the idea of having a new smith that I can feel less guilty about taking a beating and the additional capacity and moon clip compatibility is intriguing.

Additionally I have done zero research on the earlier production 627's and would be curious to hear anything regarding the differences or potential benefit of going NIB versus used.

All thoughts and opinions welcome and encouraged!

Thanks-
 
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I see a little confusion in what you said but we can figure this out. The 686-3 is a revolver from roughly 1988 to maybe 1992 or so. These are obviously pre-lock. These trade around a grand, give or take a couple hundred for condition or what package is offered. The original pre-lock 627 is freakishly expensive and will cost beyond $2k I will guess.

A new production 627...? I have no interest in the shoddy stuff they kick out these days. It would be neat to be employed in the industry but S&W wants me to pay them to do QC?! No thanks.

I would choose a pre-2000 S&W revolver every-single-time, period, full stop. I don't need anyone to agree with me, I know what I like.
 
I would choose any dash model 686 pre lock instead of a new 627 with the lock. I have never owned a S&W revolver with the lock and don't plan to. I'm sure some on the forum like the lock models, and that's fine. It just comes down to personal preference. The only pre lock 627 that I am familiar with is the 627-0 Model of 1989 with the unfluted cylinder and the L frame type barrel. I believe that it was an N Frame but I'm not sure about that. When you can find one, they bring big $$$$. There is one presently on Gunsinternational with a price of over $2000. There may have been other pre lock 627 revolvers that I am not aware of. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge than me will add to the conversation with more information. If some of my thoughts are not accurate, I will stand corrected. Good luck with your choice.
 
I prefer N frames, but own some L frames too, and they are great guns. If you are looking at a 686-3, then I would start there. Then you can pick up a 627-5 later. Actually, there is not much difference in weight, so it's kinda what you like.
I ordered a 8 shot 627 immediately after I heard they were going build them with the lock, but no cigar, mine came with the lock. It is a fantastic shooter. Later, I found a couple of 627 PC 5 inch guns and they are great too. I absolutely do not like the lock or the change in the frame styling to hold the lock. I put in a plug in mine, that made a small improvement.
 
I shoot a newer PC 627 5 inch. Its strictly a range toy and ICORE gun so I don't care about the lock. Nice trigger, gold bead, and moon clips help with competition. Would recommend for something to put a lot of rounds through without worry.
 
I can't compare the two models, since I have no experience with the 627; however, I can strongly recommend the pre-lock 686 as an exceptional handgun. I had a 4-inch 686 back in the '90s that I foolishly traded when I was younger (and dumber.) Luckily, I found a great deal on a 6" 686-4 Plus to help fill that gap many years later. If you can find a pre-lock, lightly used 686, you won't regret owning it.
 
I never really warmed up to the L-frame.

There are a few variations that I like, but as a frame family I much prefer N-frames. Especially if we are talking about a daily shooter

As a straight range gun, I would have no problem with one of the modern 8-shot N-frames in any barrel length

8-SHOTS.JPG


They have been offered in carbon steel (blue and nickel), stainless steel as well as Scandium alloy

27-set.jpg


trr8-2s.jpg


327-5.jpg


I have quite a few 627s that I use regularly, but there are two that have had significantly more ammunition through them than my others. Both have 2nd cylinders that are setup for the 9x23 Winchester cartridge. Since rimless cartridges head space on the moon clip in Smith & Wesson revovlers that cylinder can safely chamber and fire all of the shorter cartridges including 38SUPER, 9MM Parabellum and 380 ACP just like all 357 Magnum revolvers can safely chamber and fire all of the shorter rimmed cartridges in that family. Which includes 38Special, 38 Long Colt and 38 Short Colt

My first N-frame setup that way is a 627 semi-pinto. The stainless cylinder is actually the revolvers original one. This revolver is now 19 years old and I have no idea how many projectiles it has sent down range

627%209x23-1.jpg


A few years back, I decided that a great pin gun would be one of the 627 V-Comp revolvers, so I set one up with a second cylinder in just the same fashion as the revolver above

627V-Comp%20%20rs.jpg


New vs. Used:
New firearms from Every Era have the potential for problems. While a used revolver has the advantage of a previous owner that has already returned it to the Factory for warranty work. Used revolvers also tend to have smoother actions than NIB or LNIB guns since the trigger has been pulled many thousands of times by the owners that came before you

There are some folks that like to be the first shooter of their firearm even if it is something from 20+ years ago. While the Factory usually takes care of issues on those guns . . . technically, the warranty is only to the original purchaser and Smith & Wesson did not have a lifetime warranty back in the day

The lock is an eyesore especally if you fixate on it, but I ignore the ones on my firearms and hardly notice they are there
 
What is Barrel length and price of both? Is the 627 a pre lock?
 
Follow-Up Questions

I never really warmed up to the L-frame.

There are a few variations that I like, but as a frame family I much prefer N-frames. Especially if we are talking about a daily shooter

As a straight range gun, I would have no problem with one of the modern 8-shot N-frames in any barrel length

8-SHOTS.JPG


They have been offered in carbon steel (blue and nickel), stainless steel as well as Scandium alloy

27-set.jpg


trr8-2s.jpg


327-5.jpg


I have quite a few 627s that I use regularly, but there are two that have had significantly more ammunition through them than my others. Both have 2nd cylinders that are setup for the 9x23 Winchester cartridge. Since rimless cartridges head space on the moon clip in Smith & Wesson revovlers that cylinder can safely chamber and fire all of the shorter cartridges including 38SUPER, 9MM Parabellum and 380 ACP just like all 357 Magnum revolvers can safely chamber and fire all of the shorter rimmed cartridges in that family. Which includes 38Special, 38 Long Colt and 38 Short Colt

My first N-frame setup that way is a 627 semi-pinto. The stainless cylinder is actually the revolvers original one. This revolver is now 19 years old and I have no idea how many projectiles it has sent down range

627%209x23-1.jpg


A few years back, I decided that a great pin gun would be one of the 627 V-Comp revolvers, so I set one up with a second cylinder in just the same fashion as the revolver above

627V-Comp%20%20rs.jpg


New vs. Used:
New firearms from Every Era have the potential for problems. While a used revolver has the advantage of a previous owner that has already returned it to the Factory for warranty work. Used revolvers also tend to have smoother actions than NIB or LNIB guns since the trigger has been pulled many thousands of times by the owners that came before you

There are some folks that like to be the first shooter of their firearm even if it is something from 20+ years ago. While the Factory usually takes care of issues on those guns . . . technically, the warranty is only to the original purchaser and Smith & Wesson did not have a lifetime warranty back in the day

The lock is an eyesore especally if you fixate on it, but I ignore the ones on my firearms and hardly notice they are there

This was all fantastic information and I have a series of questions based on your pictures and response.

Firstly I have not been able to locate any super detailed year by year / dash to dash breakdown of the 627. Normally with a smith I first try to understand the iterations of every variation then decide based on my needs.

From what I understand aside from the personal preference aesthetically the purpose of a full lug as opposed to a half lug or angled/tapered is to provide additional weight for the shooter. Given that the N frame 627 is larger despite the (5 inch) barrel as opposed to the standard (6 inch) of the 686 variations I have been eyeing (686-3 or 686-2) I believe the weight of the 627 is slightly more. When comparing the modern 686-6 Plus 5 Inch against the 627 5 inch it says that the 627 is slightly heavier. Google tells me that the 686-3 is about 40.5 ounces making the 627 heavier. Whether or not the weight is where it needs to be for reduced recoil for hotter loads is another discussion I don't have the answer to. Also factor in the weight of 2 extra rounds and you have more weight to include when loaded.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the benefit of the N frame of the 627 and the weight difference and angled/tapered lug versus the full lug of the 686. Additionally although I love the tapered/angled lug (please let me know the correct term for the lug) I am also a fan of the earlier variation 627's with the full lug. If the N frame is in fact more beneficial for weight and stature to handle heavier rounds and the 627 is heavier even as an angled lug would the full lug 627 variation be even more of a shooter since it would be even more heavy?

Next question: As I am currently comparing the modern 627 PC version to the 686-3.. Is there a big difference in the performance between the 627 PC and earlier variations both full lug and angled? Would the differences be worth exploring a different older variation of the 627?

I have only been able to identify basic aspects of the differences between variations of the 627 such as the following:

-Full lug versions were from 1989-1997, included 6 round capability and hammer mounted firing pin
-627-2 tapered under-lug, floating firing pin, chamfered charge holes, 8 round capability 1997-1998

I am interested in the ability to use moon clips and 8 rounds.

What variations have both those features as well as the tapered under-lug? Is there a non internal locking hole version that includes those features?

Any advice on variations and potential pros and cons of different dash models would be super helpful!

I really appreciate any additional input I've already learned so much from your first response.

Best-
 
This was all fantastic information and I have a series of questions based on your pictures and response.

Firstly I have not been able to locate any super detailed year by year / dash to dash breakdown of the 627. Normally with a smith I first try to understand the iterations of every variation then decide based on my needs.
Dash numbers are not models, nor are they configurations. They are an indication that parts needed to assemble or repair this firearm are different from the next or previous engineering revision

The engineering revisions of Performance Center firearms do not always coincide with production guns of the same model

I never pay attention to engineering revisions. I base my purchases on the revolvers configuration. So I do not know if there is a good resource for that info beyond what is in the SCSW 4th edition

From what I understand aside from the personal preference aesthetically the purpose of a full lug as opposed to a half lug or angled/tapered is to provide additional weight for the shooter. Given that the N frame 627 is larger despite the (5 inch) barrel as opposed to the standard (6 inch) of the 686 variations I have been eyeing (686-3 or 686-2) I believe the weight of the 627 is slightly more. When comparing the modern 686-6 Plus 5 Inch against the 627 5 inch it says that the 627 is slightly heavier. Google tells me that the 686-3 is about 40.5 ounces making the 627 heavier. Whether or not the weight is where it needs to be for reduced recoil for hotter loads is another discussion I don't have the answer to. Also factor in the weight of 2 extra rounds and you have more weight to include when loaded.
When we are only speaking of ounces, it does not make an overly impressive difference. If you wanted to maximize the reduction of muzzle rise, the 6 1/2" 627 Heavy Hunter is the ticket

627hh.jpg


There were even two made with a 8" barrel.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the benefit of the N frame of the 627 and the weight difference and angled/tapered lug versus the full lug of the 686. Additionally although I love the tapered/angled lug (please let me know the correct term for the lug) I am also a fan of the earlier variation 627's with the full lug. If the N frame is in fact more beneficial for weight and stature to handle heavier rounds and the 627 is heavier even as an angled lug would the full lug 627 variation be even more of a shooter since it would be even more heavy?
I have never bothered shooting the longer 686s. I own one of the original 2 1/2" 686s that Lew Horton convinced the Factory to produce, though mine has been scratched up a bit

686%20right%20small.jpg


Prior to Lew Horton insisting on these 2 1/2" revolvers bieng produced, the shortest 586/686 was 4"

I also have a 3" CS-1 and a one of the 4" 686 US Treasury revolvers.

When the 586/686 released I already owned several Model 27s and Pythons, I just never saw the need for adding the 686 into that world.

BTW, angled lug, tapered lug both work fine. For some strange reason the early Factory paperwork called it a profile lug or a contoured barrel. Don't sweat it, we all know what you mean :)

Next question: As I am currently comparing the modern 627 PC version to the 686-3.. Is there a big difference in the performance between the 627 PC and earlier variations both full lug and angled? Would the differences be worth exploring a different older variation of the 627?
The original Model 627 of 1989 (SKU 101024) is not a Performance Center offering. 5,276 of these were manufactured across four engineering revisions 627, -0, -1 & -2. When the last one was assembled is unknown but the bulk pf the more than 5,000 revolvers were completed in 1989

Most all reaming 627s except the production 4" 8 shot heavy barrel and the 4' 627 pro were Performance Center offerings. The initial 8 shot, 627 introduced at the 1997 SHOT show had an engineering revision of PC (627-PC). The development began in 1996

It was Lew Horton Distributors that convinced S&W to do an 8 shot 357 Magnum revolver. When I got wind of this I called LH and asked to be sent number 357, I like serial numbers. I was told that this was a one time run of 300 firearms. In the upper left corner of this old group photo is the 27th production revolver. It was delivered to me in June of 1997.

8-shots.jpg


The concept was so successful that the entire run was sold out in just several weeks. Usually these runs take at least a year or more to sell out. So Lew decided to do a second run. I received a call frm LH asking if I still wanted number 357. It is the revolver that you see in the upper right of the group photo and was delivered in September of 1997. This run also sold out in record time.

More were produced and eventually the firearm became a cataloged item that is still available more than 25 years later.

Over the years many other configurations were offered.

I have only been able to identify basic aspects of the differences between variations of the 627 such as the following:

-Full lug versions were from 1989-1997, included 6 round capability and hammer mounted firing pin
-627-2 tapered under-lug, floating firing pin, chamfered charge holes, 8 round capability 1997-1998

I am interested in the ability to use moon clips and 8 rounds.

What variations have both those features as well as the tapered under-lug? Is there a non internal locking hole version that includes those features?

Any advice on variations and potential pros and cons of different dash models would be super helpful!

I really appreciate any additional input I've already learned so much from your first response.

Best-
As I have already mentioned, engineering revisions on production and PC guns do not always indicate the same change to the design. The Performance Center manufactures their own frames on their own CNC mills with their own tweaked CNC code.

With the exception of the production 4" model 627 heavy barrel and 2 1/2" Model 327 Night Guard, all of the Factory's 8 shot, 357 Magnum Model 27/327/627 revolvers are cut for moon clips.

The lock was slowly phased into models after lock company Saf-T-Hammer purchased Smith & Wesson in 2001. So all 8 shot 27/327/627s manufactured from 1997 through some time in 2002 do not have the internal lock.

Limiting yourself to non-lock Smith & Wesson prevents you from experiencing more then two decades of revolver development.

Again, I do not pay attention to engineering revisions. It does not matter to me of something is LH or RH threaded or of the Frame Lug is pressed in are milled in. The revolvers all shoot the same.
 
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In my experience I like the looks of the 27s, but I've found the six inch 686, lock or no lock, a better shooter. I like the nose heavy feel much better than the skinny 6" 27.
Never had a 627, so I can't speak to that.
 
I could be happy with only the 686+

I have the 8-shot 5" 627PC (43oz) and a 7-shot 5" 686-6+ (42oz). Additionally I have the 8-shot 5" 327TRR8 (35oz). All three are available as current production models.

As I've said before here on the forum, I love all things N-frame but I have a strong affection for this 686+. It just handles the best of them & is as good or better of a shooter than either N-frames. Don't sell the 686 short.

I bought the 627PC because I wanted a new 8-shot but to be honest I've never been crazy about look of the angled under-lug. They're advertised as having broached rifling -vs- the EDM rifling of the other two. I can't say I see it does anything better though.

It took a few years for me to warm up to the look of the 327TRR8s after they first came out but now it's one of my favorites.

The 7-shot 686+ is plenty strong enough to shoot 357s all day long.

And don't let the fact that they're current production models or their locks scare you or steer you away from something you want.

I've never had a problem with the locks either.

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If you can, take your time...

I'm just putting this out there, but if you can - take your time and make it your second job to stalk out the best of whatever it is that you go after - a 627 or 686. There are just so many hidden gems out there that defy what we (think) we know.

First, take the 627 N-Frame. My fascination with the 627 started with the 627-0. I see it as a last gasp of old world artisanship that is now long gone at S&W. It's 50.oz of stable recoil absorbing goodness that makes you giggle when you shoot wadcutters. That's where it started for me. Then I started watching the dash models and PC models. My buddy had a -5 (8) shot that I loved - but didn't care for the lock. So I waited, and waited and waited until one late Sunday night I noticed a 627-2 PC TC (6) shot that defied what I (thought I) knew about the 627. I jumped on it while everyone else slept though it. I got it with original box in fantastic condition. I wasn't planning on it, but I knew that if I didn't grab it - someone else would have (at below market). Long wait, but a super score (for me). I purchased it for $100.00 more than a new 627-5.

The 686 is where it all started with me. The CS-1's and several other iterations that drew my interests at the time. But as time passed and my interest narrowed to precision I started hunting for a 686 that could well define precision. Low and behold was the 686 DX with verification test target that I just had to find a way to (overpay) for. While I payed an arm and leg for it- It's now in my collection unfired (so far). I waited, waited and scored a grail gun that I didn't even know existed before it was right in front of me. But damn, I paid for it...

While the waiting was difficult, the two prizes where worth it. 686DX price aside (I'll get over it) - I'm happy I didn't just go out and buy the one in front of me, but rather wait and hunt for the one that speaks to me.

For those who love and know the 627 well - see if you can pick out what shouldn't be on a -2 model.

"The only rule is that there are no rules"...
 

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