Road trip woes

[smoothshooter]

Missouri state law prevents the public dissemination of the CCW permit list. I'm sure other states have the same prohibition. Without proof, I call that which makes grass green and fragrant. It actually makes me sad that people propagate these baseless Internet rumors. What you describe is a flagrant violation of even the most basic search and seizure law. I am sad for you that you give your statement even the most minute basis in the truth . . .

I am sad for you for not paying enough attention to current events for so long.

 

[smoothshooter]

Leave the handguns at home.
Take a shotgun or two. The kind that you can break down and transport in shorter cases that don't look like gun cases so you attract less scrutiny when carrying them in and out of motels. Get bags or cases made for photographic or sporting equipment with a brand logo not related to any gun-related company. This part is particularly important.

Even though you cannot carry them around with you in public places, at least you are not totally disarmed all the time.

 

[326MOD10]

LEOSA preempts most state/local laws re: concealed carry.

Be safe.

If you are an active police officer yes. Not retired. It covers both in different sections.

If not I would suggest you read the Act again.

If you don't, no sweat off my back. And no I am not an attorney but I do okay with reading.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I remember the incident. Jay Nixon is a Democrat. . .

You are right about the law in Missouri, but not about the practice.
A few years ago a career female state government employee electronically sent the state roster of all CCW holders to the FBI, and another alphabet agency or two. She may have worked in the Governor's office. When it was discovered what she had done, which was illegal, she claimed it was an honest mistake, and was not fired, prosecuted, identified by name, or punished in any way. Even though the governor was Jay Nixon (Republican), he was wanting to make friends with Washington Democrats, and it was rumored the secretary did it with his blessing so it all would not come back on him.
I know other states have the same prohibitions, but based on events over the last 15 years or so, do you trust your state, local, and federal government to follow the law?
If Missouri has done stuff like that you can bet other states are doing it too, maybe by other means.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Yes to 326MOD10, above. I did 29 years OTJ in NJ. The day I retired " Cop killer bullets" aka hollow points were verboten to me. Moved to the free state of Virginia and no longer got jerked around by the NJSP over pistol permits. The hollow point clause was overturned last September but who want to be the test case?

To this day I still reload my J frame with SWC just to be safe from NJ interpretation.

Which brings up another point. Retired, I travel a lot on motorcycle tours. While covered by LEOSA, I carry a J frame because that's legal in all fifty states. No if ands or buts interpretation from LEO's suffering from the John Wayne syndrome.

Let me end with this, I taught at the police academy level for eighteen years. NJ is a ****hole state for gun laws and your "freedoms". The state legislators care nothing about the constitution. Nor do they care when Federal judges overturn their laws. They just rewrite junk knowing it will take years to overturn again.

 

[max503]

If they can drag an ex-president through the courts for a book-keeping error, they could surely drag a gun owner through the courts using ambiguous interpretations of the law.

Glad I never go out east. I just hope their practices don't spread elsewhere, even though they already are.

 

[max503]

I wonder if you couldn't pawn a gun in a safe state before entering an unfriendly one, then picking it up on your way home?

 

[CMYSIX]

and your planning on getting pulled over and searched for what reason? A light out or a traffic violation IS NOT probable cause for a warrantless search. SCOTUS has spoken on the subject in 1990?

 

[Farmer17]

Good thing most criminals are too dumb to know about the gun laws in those Northeastern states. People would be easy prey for them, especial women and the elderly.

 

[Zackary]

I would strongly suggest that you not travel through any part of NYS with your handguns and I'm a NYS resident and a handgun owner here ( Upstate NY ). The odds might be a 1 million to one of anything ever happening but we've all had those things come up in life. I can certainly understand you wanting to protect yourself and your family. Strange isn't it.. law abiding citizens wanting to do the right thing.. while the criminals couldn't care less.

 

[Capt. F.]

I ran into this issue when I lived in the northeast (and on the move out). I relied on FOPA or just complied with state firearms laws if I had a use for a gun at my destination. If I didn't have a use for it (an actual use, like we're going to blast some clays or hunt or whatever) the gun would stay home. As another poster said, enjoy your vacation. If the gun issue is causing you stress, leave it behind, I think somehow you'll survive unarmed in Maine (which is, by the way, a wonderful if rather underrated state).

And Maine, NH and Vt are Constitutional Carry states!

 

[pawngal]

I wonder if you couldn't pawn a gun in a safe state before entering an unfriendly one, then picking it up on your way home?

Not a handgun for certain, long guns questionable. Pawning guns follows the same laws as purchases. Must be a resident of the state.

 

[The Big D]

I am very familiar with LEOSA…

…and have qualified/carried per LEOSA since 2006.

If one meets LEOSA requirements as a retired LEO they are exempt from states laws governing CCW.

The sole difference between LEO's and retirees is that ON DUTY LEO's can carry in "gun free school zones.' Retired personnel cannot absent a state CCW permit.

As an aside, I have carried as a retiree in at least 31 states; never an issue.

If you are an active police officer yes. Not retired. It covers both in different sections.

If not I would suggest you read the Act again.

If you don't, no sweat off my back. And no I am not an attorney but I do okay with reading.

 

[lrrifleman]

A lot of great information here. Unfortunately, I've lived in NJ all of my life, and I can share some NJ kwerks.

Technically, hollow points are illegal, but used more as an "add-on" charge when there is a criminal act. County Prosecutors control charging, and go for the throat. Each hollow point bullet (not complete cartridge) is a charge that can result in 7.5 years in prison, plus loss of 2A rights! People have been charged and convicted by merely possessing a hollow point bullet key chain!

Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty ammo has been specifically stated as legal in NJ because of the polymer insert.

While NJ may recognize LEOSA for some retired LEOs, it doesn't apply to all. Local prosecutors have charged and convicted LEOs if they didn't have arrest authority in their job, so corrections officers are left hanging in the cold!

When I travel, I carry where allowed, under non-resident permits. I will not apply for a NJ permit now because the requirements and privileges are too much in Flux.

When I attend the Sig Academy, or vacation in VT, NH, or ME, I strive to get through enemy country (NYS, CT, MA) as quickly as possible via I95. Target pistols, carry pistol, and ammo are in separate locked containers.

 

[ispcapt]

If you are an active police officer yes. Not retired. It covers both in different sections.
If not I would suggest you read the Act again.
If you don't, no sweat off my back. And no I am not an attorney but I do okay with reading.

Yes Big D is correct. For active and retired LEOs LEOSA exempts them from local and state CCW laws. And yes read it is a good idea. It says so in the very first line for both active and retired. That is the very purpose of LEOSA.
In case you haven't read it here's the first line of LEOSA "(a)Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof,"

While NJ may recognize LEOSA for some retired LEOs, it doesn't apply to all. Local prosecutors have charged and convicted LEOs if they didn't have arrest authority in their job, so corrections officers are left hanging in the cold!

If the corrections office did not have have arrest authority then they aren't covered by LEOSA. They weren't left hanging in the cold. LEOSA doesn't apply to them. Having had statutory arrest authority is one of the stipulations a person has to meet to be covered by LEOSA.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I was hoping you'd show up here . . .

Yes Big D is correct. For active and retired LEOs LEOSA exempts them from local and state CCW laws. And yes read it is a good idea. It says so in the very first line for both active and retired. That is the very purpose of LEOSA.
In case you haven't read it here's the first line of LEOSA "(a)Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof,"


If the corrections office did not have have arrest authority then they aren't covered by LEOSA. They weren't left hanging in the cold. LEOSA doesn't apply to them. Having had statutory arrest authority is one of the stipulations a person has to meet to be covered by LEOSA.

 

[CA Escapee]

I am also not an attorney, but I will add one thought on this topic.

FOPA provides an affirmative defense at best. This means that you are more likely to avoid conviction, or have any conviction set aside on appeal. Of course, all of this happens after arrest, booking, arraignment, bail bond, and trial, perhaps by a year or two. The attorneys you will be paying for your defense will have a strong defensive argument on your behalf.

Winning the war is good. Losing the battles is not so good, and terribly expensive.

Much better to avoid any need to exercise an affirmative defense! Much better to avoid any need for defense lawyers, bail bondsmen, repeated trips to court appearances far from home!

And, it may be over after all of the above, but then in the end the state may keep your firearm. What are you going to do about that? Do you have any money left to take the state to court?

Start by re-reading LoboGunLeather's post.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Wow, how many lawyers have given advice on this thread? I am not an attorney. Are any of the other posters?

Kevin

Being a lawyer (yes, I am) is not a prerequisite for understanding the fact that certain states SUCK for gun owners. It is not a matter of just being a careful driver, not violating laws, etc. Anything untoward could happen. Even a minor accident attracts law enforcement and what do you do when the nice NY/NJ policeman sees your out-of-town license plates and asks if you have any guns? Good luck keeping that poker face going.

What Lobo said above is my point. The FOPA is a defense. Flying from one "legal" state to another "legal" state is simplicity itself, even when you have to declare your firearm. I have done it many times. Trains and bus rides are no different. But when you drive you have to accept the risk of MAYBE getting stopped, even an unlawful stop, or an accident, etc., etc., etc. Even getting your case dismissed at the outset won't be cheap and it will ruin your vacation, especially if you spend any time at all at the grey bar hotel.

Legal opinions here, from lawyers, cops, or anyone, are free, you get what you pay for. Getting arrested, even "incorrectly" to use a term that applies, AIN'T FUN AND AIN'T CHEAP!


Let's be careful out there.

 

[Karnivore]

As the OP of this thread, I appreciate all the advice and info regarding my trip.

I am a 66 year old that just had half my colon removed from a cancer diagnosis. I am a past LE officer and avid hunter that knows the value of a defensive weapon particularly when my wife is present. I am very low key kind of guy, my "I just want to be left alone" mentality is normally the rule of the day.

With all that being said, I a not too concerned with Penn. But, the 150 mile stretch through NYS would be nerve wracking. Even following the FOPA rules it sounds like I could get whacked by NYS LE. Do they watch for out of state vehicles? IDK... Do they get you for magazine capacity? Do they get you for the type of cartridges you have. Should I just take a bog bore revolver with soft point rounds?

Don't need the hassle at this stage in my life.

I have thought about shipping one of my handguns to Maine so I would have it for the 10 days we will be there and then shipping it back to a FFL friend of mine. Any. thoughts?

Also was wondering if driving through NYS with my Henry 45/70 lever rifle makes a difference? Any thoughts there?

I am very aware of my surroundings, so concealed carry is just part of the issue. We are staying in a remote area of Maine so "things that go bump in the night" is a larger concern.

Again, thanks to all that have shared their knowledge.

 

[ispcapt]

With all that being said, I a not too concerned with Penn. But, the 150 mile stretch through NYS would be nerve wracking. Even following the FOPA rules it sounds like I could get whacked by NYS LE. Do they watch for out of state vehicles? IDK...

Do you think you'll be the only out of state vehicle driving thru NYS that day?
Do you think NYS stops every out of state vehicle that comes thru NYS? Or even most out of state vehicles?
Seriously? Think about that. Particularly if you're former LE you should know the answer to that. Where ever you worked in LE did you make it a practice to stop every out of state vehicle that passed thru your area? If so what was the reason for the stop? Just being from out of state?
Some people's paranoia clouds their common sense.