Semi-Auto-- Load 1 in the Chamber??

I heard an expression lately that was new to me but probably has been around for a while.

It was the term "Barney mag" and it referred to a spare magazine that you used solely to strip a round out of to chamber a round before inserting a full magazine in the gun in order to have your autoloader loaded to full +1 capacity prior to carrying it.

The "Barney" reference was in tribute to Deputy Fife and only being allowed one round of ammo.
 
I heard an expression lately that was new to me but probably has been around for a while.

It was the term "Barney mag" and it referred to a spare magazine that you used solely to strip a round out of to chamber a round before inserting a full magazine in the gun in order to have your autoloader loaded to full +1 capacity prior to carrying it.

The "Barney" reference was in tribute to Deputy Fife and only being allowed one round of ammo.
Hadn't heard that, but I like it!
 
I hadnt heard that before either, but its funny.

Modern pistols do carry a lot of rounds, I could see that not being a worry to someone. I sometimes carry older semi's, so yeah with only maybe 7 rounds available the Plus-1 is a big deal, and being a defensive carry firearm, could be way more important than its 12-14% face value. I dont mind buying a new mag every year or three.

Personally, since its possible, I'd never forget the Plus-1. I havent heard the after-action interview where a survivor complained about having bullets left over....
 
I for one would like to see......

... the action of how a bullet gets seated in the chamber and engages the ejector. Maybe if I work the action REAL SLOW and watch. The rim/head of the cartridge must catch the ejector while finishing going up the feed ramp and slide into position without the ejector jumping over the rim.

OK, I got it wrong, extractor.:)
 
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Seems some folks still don't know that ejectors and extractors are not the same thing.

To put one in the chamber and let the slide fall forward to snap the extractor over the rim is more stressful on the extractor than running the slide and allowing a round to feed from the mag, simply because some of the slide's energy is used up in stripping the round from the mag making the eventual snap-over a relatively gentle, "cushioned", operation. On some designs with a comparatively dainty extractor, you run a risk of breaking it if you let the slide slam home on a chambered round; beefier extractors can take it for a long time, but they are getting more abuse than they need to and may well wear out before they should.
 
I don't pretend to know much about metallurgy but there is this:

I habitually load a mag, rack one into the chamber, remove the mag, top it off and re-insert it.

It never occurred to me to do it any other way other than the occasion when I might not top off the magazine. There is that option.....
 
Depending upon the extractor design, feeding a round from the magazine may result in a classic "controlled round" feed wherein the rim of the cartridge is grasped fairly early in the feed cycle and the case head slides up between the extractor hook and breech face even before the slide is fully in battery.

In that scenario a round may be extracted before the slide is fully closed if for some reason you wish not to chamber the round. If the extractor is a pivoting design and the feeding action of the autoloader is more of a "push feed" design failing to fully close the slide and then retracting it may result in a loose round lying atop the magazine and a jam when trying to chamber the next round.

In any case you should use snap caps or dummy rounds and observe what your gun is doing when loading and feeding rounds. It should help you make a decision regarding how to properly handle it.
 
As with any semi auto, lock the slide to the rear, insert a loaded magazine, release slide to pick up a round from the mag. (all while safety is on if you have one). Then remove the magazine and load one more to top off. That is the best way I know of.
 
... the action of how a bullet gets seated in the chamber and engages the ejector. Maybe if I work the action REAL SLOW and watch. The rim/head of the cartridge must catch the ejector while finishing going up the feed ramp and slide into position without the ejector jumping over the rim.

This is a 1911 cycling but almost all pistols basically function the same way.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeMXJVtR4wY[/ame]
 
I hadnt heard that before either, but its funny.

Modern pistols do carry a lot of rounds, I could see that not being a worry to someone. I sometimes carry older semi's, so yeah with only maybe 7 rounds available the Plus-1 is a big deal, and being a defensive carry firearm, could be way more important than its 12-14% face value. I dont mind buying a new mag every year or three.

Personally, since its possible, I'd never forget the Plus-1. I havent heard the after-action interview where a survivor complained about having bullets left over....

And I never heard an "after action interview" ( whatever that is) where a survivor said "If only I had one more"........
 
I cant tell if it is an opposition to carrying a round in the chamber or just semantics.

Any amount of bullets required for someone to become a "survivor" of a gun battle as opposed to a casualty is the exact right amount of bullets, in my very humble opinion. I respectfully submit for consideration, since that number is not always the same number from case to case, maybe we should just consider from the survivors point of view, whatever number it took to become a survivor of the battle instead of dead, what if they had had one bullet less?

I'll take all I can get.
 
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Right amount

I cant tell if it is an opposition to carrying a round in the chamber or just semantics.

Any amount of bullets required for someone to become a "survivor" of a gun battle as opposed to a casualty is the exact right amount of bullets, in my very humble opinion. I respectfully submit for consideration, since that number is not always the same number from case to case, maybe we should just consider from the survivors point of view, whatever number it took to become a survivor of the battle instead of dead, what if they had had one bullet less?

I'll take all I can get.

We speak often about caliber and magazine capacity, about trigger mechanics and feed operation on every forum and in every gun magazine I know of since the 1970's when I started reading them. It certainly does no harm, as long as the important issues are not neglected. But I have noticed in my 37 years of concealed carry, that these concerns never carry weight in the news reports. Often you never know what caliber was used or even what type of pistol was used by the successful or unsuccessful defender. For example...

I had read several dozens of reports about Eli Dicken and his successful defense of shoppers at the Greenwood Mall, Indiana in July last year, before I finally learned that he used a Glock 9mm. Over on the Glock Forum they still cannot say which model of Glock he used. They know he shot 10 rounds from 40 yards with 8 hits in 15 seconds.

I think he shot 2 rounds supported against a column from forty yards with one hit and then advanced on his enemy and fired several more at more than half that distance unsupported, and advancing his last few were pretty close. If caliber and magazine capacity were as important as they seem to be in our arguments here, should not that be our first and most important question about any incident? Somehow, we instinctively know that it was Dicken's skill and character that saved countless lives that day, never mind the number of rounds.
Commitment to protect.
Hours of training and preparation under his Grandpa.
Cool courage under fire.
Marksmanship.
Tactics.
Thank you, God, that such men as Elisjsha Dicken walk among us.
These are the names of the three from that day who no longer walk with us:
Pedro Pineda, 56, and his wife,
Rosa Mirian Rivera de Pineda, 37, both from Indianapolis,
and Victor Gomez, 30.
May we walk with them in white. Rev. 3:4.
 
Amen to that.
Agreed, survival is certainly an overall combination of multiple factors.


When I think though in the spirit of this specific question about whether or not to carry with a round in the chamber, I do know people who refuse because of a fear of 'something', and if some tragic event were to befall them I worry about the additional time it might take under duress & adrenaline to chamber a round just to prepare to respond to a threat. I question if they have some fear at all if it is wise to carry at all... but Im not sure which is worse.


I think in terms of calibers and loads the FBI & LEO data gives us so many data points to review we dont need to look any farther. I think round count falls more under practical application for the civilian sector, where we need to take into account the psychological and behavioral aspects of everyday folks and how shootings play out, and a lot of that data is available if you dig a bit in the right places. In truth most folks really dont go to the range every day or find ourselves in stressful, dangerous situations.


Studying the last 15-20 years of data on civilian fire fights shows a few interesting statistical facts I think all new or novice defensive carry folks should keep in mind:
1) no one really ever gets opportunity to use a BUG or reload. The capacity in your hand when it starts is what will take you through to the end 99.9% of the time.
2) Nothing counts more than accuracy & shot placement.
3) at least the first 3-4 shots are almost always fired in a panic and not aimed (see note #2 above)
4) most engagements start in surprisingly close-quarters
5) civilian firefights seldom last more than 1 minute, often they are only seconds.


It goes without saying that nothing replaces practice and staying calm, but past that it seems to me that the mechanical device should to be one that is ALWAYS on your person in easy reach, easy for you to control for followup, something you are comfortable & accurate with, and should contain as many rounds as possible with the quickest deployment you can reasonably manage.

and practice, practice, practice. The world has become a very dangerous place over the last 25 years, in my opinion.
 
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And Your Two hands

Amen to that.
Agreed, survival is certainly an overall combination of multiple factors.


When I think though in the spirit of this specific question about whether or not to carry with a round in the chamber, I do know people who refuse because of a fear of 'something', and if some tragic event were to befall them I worry about the additional time it might take under duress & adrenaline to chamber a round just to prepare to respond to a threat. I question if they have some fear at all if it is wise to carry at all... but Im not sure which is worse.


I think in terms of calibers and loads the FBI & LEO data gives us so many data points to review we dont need to look any farther. I think round count falls more under practical application for the civilian sector, where we need to take into account the psychological and behavioral aspects of everyday folks and how shootings play out, and a lot of that data is available if you dig a bit in the right places. In truth most folks really dont go to the range every day or find ourselves in stressful, dangerous situations.


Studying the last 15-20 years of data on civilian fire fights shows a few interesting statistical facts I think all new or novice defensive carry folks should keep in mind:
1) no one really ever gets opportunity to use a BUG or reload. The capacity in your hand when it starts is what will take you through to the end 99.9% of the time.
2) Nothing counts more than accuracy & shot placement.
3) at least the first 3-4 shots are almost always fired in a panic and not aimed (see note #2 above)
4) most engagements start in surprisingly close-quarters
5) civilian firefights seldom last more than 1 minute, often they are only seconds.


It goes without saying that nothing replaces practice and staying calm, but past that it seems to me that the mechanical device should to be one that is ALWAYS on your person in easy reach, easy for you to control for followup, something you are comfortable & accurate with, and should contain as many rounds as possible with the quickest deployment you can reasonably manage.

and practice, practice, practice. The world has become a very dangerous place over the last 25 years, in my opinion.

Over on Active Self Protection YouTube Channel the consensus is clearly demonstrated and taught by the host John Correia. It is very sad to watch someone die simply because he never got to rack the slide. You said time, I say space. (It's the same thing sort of.) You cannot chamber a round while one hand is busy resisting your assailant!

It is not correct IMHO to absolutely condemn the practice. Some fighters are very skilled and competent with empty hands and improvised weapons. Their plan will be using those skills to create time and space to employ the handgun.
 
With semi-auto pistols, I always load out of the magazine.

I understand that this conversation is about pistols. However, it is equally important to know about how your rifle works. You can load rounds into the chamber of a Remington 700 until the cows come home. You must NOT with a Mauser '98. Some instruction manuals say that you normally load out of the magazine but can, on occasion, drop one in the chamber and allow the extractor to jump over the rim. If you have a Winchester Model 70, it depends on when it was made …
 
I'm glad you said that.
I can honestly say that it never crossed my mind with rifles. I dont hunt, but I'll carry it when I am out on the mountain, but never with a round in the chamber. It is possible I could run into trouble out there as well, just feels different than being in the city I guess. I'll generally have a pistol on me as well, but my hands are full of rifle. Thanks for making that point. I'll need to do some research on my rifles.
 
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