Electric auto measure and extruded powder

[ike1518]

Hello,

Do electronic auto powder measures work well with extruded powders such as N320 and N340? I’m having a heck of a time getting consistent results with my Redding powder measure. It works quite well on other powders that I have such as HP-38, Win 244, Sport Pistol etc. but not on the extruded stuff.

 

[fordson]

Fine grained powders (typically pistol powders) meter well thru the average volumetric powder measure. I use the RCBS Uniflow and the Dillon case activated powder measure and get accurate and repeatable results with no issues. Extruded powders, otoh, not so much. I recently purchased an RCBS Charge Master Lite. I’ve used it to load IMR4895, 4198 and 4064, all extruded powers. It worked quite well, delivering the set charge weight within half grain (Wt) when checked against my beam scale. I didn’t think I would like it but found a new unit at a good price. FWIW, I recommend it. If that’s what you are looking for, shop around and you can find them at a good price point.

 

[colt_saa]

I am not familiar with your powder measure

I have had AMT and Lyman electric powder measures

All three of the electric powder measures I have owned have a fast tube and a slow tube or a single tube that varies speed. When the charge gets close the fast tube shuts down or the single tube slows.

Does yours work this way as well?

Mine have all worked fine with extruded powders

 

[ike1518]

I am not familiar with your powder measure

I have had AMT and Lyman electric powder measures

All three of the electric powder measures I have owned have a fast tube and a slow tube or a single tube that varies speed. When the charge gets close the fast tube shuts down or the single tube slows.

Does yours work this way as well?

Mine have all worked fine with extruded powders

Sorry for the confusion; my Redding is a standard NON-electric measure. I’m thinking maybe I should get an auto measure.

Thank you.

 

[Krogen]

I have an RCBS Chargemaster Lite. It's not spectacular with coarse-grained or stick powders. Tests with my Creedmoor scale have shown the repeatability I can expect. The Creedmoor scale reads to 0.01 gn (yes, not 0.1 gn as most do).

With stick powders, the Chargemaster can deliver charges within +/- 0.3 gn of its setpoint. Fine-grained powders are better and it will stay within +/- 0.1 gn. These ranges may or may not bother you depending on the cartridge volume. What does bother me, is that even when the Chargemaster drops at the ends of its tolerance band, the readout shows setpoint. In other words, the load may be off by 0.3 gn but the display shows perfection; zero error.

I could tolerate a wider tolerance if the scale would report the variance, but it doesn't. I use the Chargemaster, but I use my Creedmoor scale to check each charge. And by the way, don't place them too close or they will affect each other. I can't say if the issue is high EMC emissions or excessive susceptibility. I'd need to get in an EMC lab to tell and I don't work there anymore!

 

[ike1518]

I load for 38 Special and 357 Magnum maybe 50 to 100 rounds at a time, fwiw.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

I have an RCBS electronic charge master scale. It's not great with long extruded granule powder. I don't really use it any more. Instead I just drop the charge from my Redding powder drop and trickle charge up to the exact charge on my beam scale (if I'm loading for bench rest).

 

[Tex1001]

I load extruded powders with RCBS and Lee manual measures.
They work well for me because:

I ALWAYS use a powder baffle. The physics cannot be ignored.

 

[barkbark]

Which Reading do you have? I have the 3BR which has two measuring chambers available: one for smaller charges, one for larger charges (I think Redding calls them pistol and universal). The smaller measure is tougher (more crunching kernels) to get perfect charges with stick powders, while the larger one is a bit easier (less crunching). The large chamber works well for something like 44 Magnum, but might be difficult with a lighter charge in 38 Special. Both chambers are adequate for my handgun reloading use.



As to the question of electronic measures, I have an AutoTrickler with an A&D laboratory quality digital scale. It is accurate down to a single kernel of stick powder, and it works very well. It is much slower than dropping a charge with the Redding. I use it mostly for F Class rifle reloading. For my use it would be way too expensive and time consuming to justify for handgun reloading. My expectation for precision in F Class is very high, while my handgun precision expectation is much lower. For my abilities I don't see the value of that level of charge weight accuracy for handgun usage.


This is all based on my experience and is not intended to be any sort of expert final analysis.


Jim

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a Reddig BR-30 and a Lyman 55 and a 20 year old RCBS Auto Charge. I usr a measuring spoon and dump about a 90-95% charge on the scale to speed up the feeding the Scale target is 0.5 to 1.0 below the target and trickle in the final bit. On 338 Lapua Mag the charge is 94.0 of Retumbo. It would take for ever to do completely automated. Then 50% would .1 to .2 grains over and 50% under. I can charge in my method to within +/-.05 Grain This is suitable for 2" groups at 1000 yards (if I do my job right!) That is 1/5 MOA.

My previous load was 104.0 gr. of US869. The Lyman 55 would be +/- .75 grain with that very fine ball powder! While it is a tiny percentage, I prefer better accuracy.

I use the same methods on 308 Win and 47.0 grains of Varget and get 2" groups at 1000 yards also.

All shortcuts in powder delivery have a cost of a +/-. On small cases it is usually acceptable, but on large cases, the hand finishing is worth the effort.

Some time back I saw Brownell's was selling digital scales were accurate to within 2/100 grain +/-. Very big money for very little gain!

Ivan

 

[DWalt]

I have a Lyman 1200 DPS II automatic scale/trickler. I use it only for rifle loads as it is a bit slow if you want to load several hundred handgun rounds. It is extremely consistent and works very well with all stick powders. For loading ball and fine grained powders, a much simpler volumetric powder measure would be greatly preferred. I use the Lyman 55 measure for handgun loads, actually two of them. It is consistent within +/- 0.1 grains with ball and fine grain powders. I have baffles in my 55s. That is way more than good enough performance for me.

 

[Tu_S]

Among the reloading tools I have that will be replaced the same day when it eventually breaks is my Hornady AutoCharger

IMR 4198 is the only thing I am currently using that is extruded, but it gets +/-0.1 by itself. I did have to play with the settings a little for when it switches from high to low speed, and on occasion it will over charge, but to me that's just a part of the process for the tool, and dumping an over charge back into the bin and having it start over is a lot less frustrating that trickling by hand. It also works for flake powders like 700-X that I tend to get a little more variance than I would like when measuring by volume.

One thing that has been mentioned though, while it will speed things up compared to hand trickling, an auto charger does kind of slow things down compared to measuring by volume. Personally it's not really a problem since I mainly use it when putting together target loads, with target meaning stuff more accurate than the bulk practice rounds one of the progressives spit out, and am willing to spend the time. Of course for pistol rounds put together on a turret press, the thing will usually finish the next charge by the time I finish the last round and have the next case sized, primed, and ready to charge.

 

[ike1518]

I load extruded powders with RCBS and Lee manual measures.
They work well for me because:

I ALWAYS use a powder baffle. The physics cannot be ignored.

I use a baffle as well, but per your drawing I may have it up too high. Thanks for the information!

 

[ike1518]

Which Reading do you have? I have the 3BR which has two measuring chambers available: one for smaller charges, one for larger charges (I think Redding calls them pistol and universal). The smaller measure is tougher (more crunching kernels) to get perfect charges with stick powders, while the larger one is a bit easier (less crunching). The large chamber works well for something like 44 Magnum, but might be difficult with a lighter charge in 38 Special. Both chambers are adequate for my handgun reloading use.



As to the question of electronic measures, I have an AutoTrickler with an A&D laboratory quality digital scale. It is accurate down to a single kernel of stick powder, and it works very well. It is much slower than dropping a charge with the Redding. I use it mostly for F Class rifle reloading. For my use it would be way too expensive and time consuming to justify for handgun reloading. My expectation for precision in F Class is very high, while my handgun precision expectation is much lower. For my abilities I don't see the value of that level of charge weight accuracy for handgun usage.


This is all based on my experience and is not intended to be any sort of expert final analysis.


Jim

I don't know the model number but it is the most basic powder measure that Redding offers. I bought it probably 15 years ago and use the pistol chamber.

 

[ike1518]

Among the reloading tools I have that will be replaced the same day when it eventually breaks is my Hornady AutoCharger

IMR 4198 is the only thing I am currently using that is extruded, but it gets +/-0.1 by itself. I did have to play with the settings a little for when it switches from high to low speed, and on occasion it will over charge, but to me that's just a part of the process for the tool, and dumping an over charge back into the bin and having it start over is a lot less frustrating that trickling by hand. It also works for flake powders like 700-X that I tend to get a little more variance than I would like when measuring by volume.

One thing that has been mentioned though, while it will speed things up compared to hand trickling, an auto charger does kind of slow things down compared to measuring by volume. Personally it's not really a problem since I mainly use it when putting together target loads, with target meaning stuff more accurate than the bulk practice rounds one of the progressives spit out, and am willing to spend the time. Of course for pistol rounds put together on a turret press, the thing will usually finish the next charge by the time I finish the last round and have the next case sized, primed, and ready to charge.

If I get an electronic scale I'm leaning toward the Hornady Auto Charge Pro, but only if I decide to load more extruded powder. Until then I'm thinking HP-38 powder and my manual Redding measure will work just fine.

Take care all and thank you for your great replies!

 

[Patrick L]

Not to be a wise guy, or to hijack the thread, but why exactly do these electronic auto powder dispensers even exist? They strike me as what Colonel Cooper called a solution to a non existent problem, or something to that effect. And I do use manual powder measures, progressive presses, etc.

Again no disrespect intended, buy and use what you want. Just seems like money that could be spent on more powder and primers.

 

[Krogen]

Not to be a wise guy, or to hijack the thread, but why exactly do these electronic auto powder dispensers even exist? They strike me as what Colonel Cooper called a solution to a non existent problem, or something to that effect. And I do use manual powder measures, progressive presses, etc.

Again no disrespect intended, buy and use what you want. Just seems like money that could be spent on more powder and primers.

Great observation, Patrick! I got by with an RCBS human-powered powder measure for years (starting in the early 80's). Then I upgraded to a Redding. It's micrometer adjustment was just the ticket. Somewhere along the line, my balance beam scale was replaced by one of RCBS's first electronic scales. Then I bought the RCBS Chargemaster. Most recently a Creedmoor scale that reads to 0.01 gn and comes with three calibration weights. Woo hoo! I'm cookin' with gas!

Has all this helped? Jury's out. I confess to an interest in the latest and greatest. Only it's not always the greatest! In all honesty I could still be using my old RCBS powder measure and beam scale. Along with a manual trickler, I'd be just fine. But, I've had buckets o' fun playing with new stuff all these years. This is a hobby for me, not a job. I'm not beholden to a manager or trying to keep black ink on the bottom line. Truth be said, it's all red ink! And the payback is profound enjoyment.

There ya have it! My (handloading) life story!

 

[Patrick L]

I certainly do get that! I sometimes do things "just because I want to try it" or something like that. I tried electronic scales too, went back to the balance beam for reloading, BUT I do like the electronic scales for weight sorting.

 

[raljr1]

I had a Lyman beam scale that I absolutely could not get to work. I bought a Hornady electronic dispenser/scale...i love it. I use several different powders, some dispense more quickly that others, but it keeps all my loads consistent. i have used it exclusively for handgun calibers so far. I charge a case, and seat the bullet immediately thereafter. The next charge is usually dispensed in the time it takes me to set and check the b.ullet

Robert

 

[toad67]

Not to be a wise guy, or to hijack the thread, but why exactly do these electronic auto powder dispensers even exist? They strike me as what Colonel Cooper called a solution to a non existent problem, or something to that effect. And I do use manual powder measures, progressive presses, etc.

Again no disrespect intended, buy and use what you want. Just seems like money that could be spent on more powder and primers.

If I'm using mine to load bulk plinking ammo, I can seat a bullet while dispensing a charge of powder. Just seems to speed things up a bit.