New to Virginia - Neighbor shoots towards my property

[John_M52]

Hope this is the right forum.

Bought a large farm in VA and found a neighbor's improvised steel target range on a fence on his side of an easement. Easement is about 100' wide. The range is set up such that he shoots from his property towards mine. I have a straight fairly flat bush hogged path over a mile long from the easement across part of my land directly down range. So any time I'm out there, there is the possibility of a flyer coming down. I made an inquiry and the neighbor is not quite right in the head and there was some bad blood between the former owner and the neighbor when he was told he can't hunt on what is now my land. This is rural northern VA. Not sure how much the range is used. The previous owner proactively prosecuted poachers until it stopped. The property is posted but not without annoying some of the "locals." Suggestions? I'm told talking to the neighbor will be unfruitful.

 

[ladder13]

I’ll be the first, get a lawyer.

 

[johngalt]

I myself have never been a property owner, but my parents have had the misfortune of having less than neighborly neighbors. In their experience, no amount of 'negotiating' worked. Whatever was said to their face was irrelevant, the neighbors were lying and did whatever they were going to do anyway.

 

[NFrameFred]

You can get farther with a ". . . . " (gun; lawyer; deputy; court order; 2 x4 . . . take your pick) and a kind word than you can with just a kind word.

 

[BigBoy99]

If fired upon, return fire.

 

[venomballistics]

If fired upon, return fire.

This certainly has to be in the option list.
not number one, two or three, but on the list, positioned for quick access.
Old "Earl" sounds like he needs a state imposed change of address to sane up the kink in his think.
That may be your primary objective ... that is ... if you can't negotiate a mutually beneficial shooting range.

 

[Inusuit]

If fired upon, return fire.

I think this is bad advice.

 

[glenwolde]

I think this is bad advice.

I agree. They'll end up in the same holding cell.

 

[BKLooney]

Neighbors can be tough to deal with, especially when you're the new guy.

I'd go over and introduce myself and in fairly short order start talking guns since the guy is obviously into them as well.

I'd tell him that I'd be setting myself up a good range and tell the guy he's more than welcome to use it himself if he'd like.

You may not know what actually took place between your neighbor and the person you acquired the property from, you may find your new neighbor ain't all that bad of a person!

 

[jeffrefrig]

You could try to make friends with him and ask to use his range some time to try it out, as you want ideas on how to make your own. You can see how good a shot he is before you worry too much about flyers. (Which can happen to anyone, but less likely to a good shooter.) You'd think the neighbor's range might have been mentioned or seen when you looked over the property before you bought the land.
If you hear banjo music, run away.

 

[somorris]

Maybe first try to make friends with your neighbors. Give them permission to hunt on your land, but advise for safety reasons you want to know when and where they will be hunting. Hopefully gradually, you can overcome the bad blood. Someone who likes you would most likely not want to shoot you. You said you have a large farm, so maybe you can make room.

 

[kev74]

A conversation might not help, but it can't hurt. I've never regretted being on friendly terms with the neighbors. It could be your neighbor was the reasonable one and the former owner of your farm was the jerk.

I'd start with a polite introduction and a request to hold fire if you're down range (or in the area). If it becomes a problem, you can escalate later as needed.

 

[WR Moore]

Without the range, I had some initial problems with some local hunters after buying property and building a house. The guys I talked to understood my concerns about my house getting shot. Depending upon the size/shape of your land, you might consider allowing specific responsible hunters to hunt. Those without written permission to hunt could still be dealt with by LLEA.

Now then, about the unreasonable neighbor. I'd give trying to make friends a start. Show you're not some snotty "city guy". If that doesn't work, depending upon exactly where you are in VA, a chat with the Sheriff would be a good place to start with your concerns about the range. While the guy probably has the right to shoot on his property, using your property as an impact area raises a legitimate concern. If that fails, then talks with an attorney become necessary. Although, he might not be all that impressed with a cease and desist order. At that point, surveilance cameras/sound recorders could be used to document any use of the range.

Practically speaking, I shot long range rifle competition out to 1000 yards. From a base sight setting for 200 yards, the additional bullet drop at 1000 yards was around 40 feet. If his firing point is level or above the target, the possible intrusion onto your property is limited but he should still have a backstop.

 

[John_M52]

Thank you for all the replies.

The old owner was on good terms with the father who owned the adjacent property and they shared access to the easement area. The father passed and one son maintained good relations. The other son has issues. Unfortunately the stable son moved away and that's when things went south. I retained the farm manager who has been on the property for 30 years and is very well respected by all, and he said there is no dealing with the son. "He's just not right in the head." There is a significant deer population on the property which the manager has maintained all along and he and his buddies are the only ones I have allowed to hunt on it for now. It's a liability issue for me. And interestingly that was the only part of the property that the realtor couldn't access before the sale. We did some clearing of downed trees to reopen that end of the trail and that's when I came across the range. Maybe they were down for a reason...

 

[Onomea]

I like the suggestion above to speak with the sheriff. A rural sheriff tends to know everybody, and is a good person to know.

If you're fortunate, maybe you've got a guy like Charlie or Faulkner.

How about drop by his office and introduce yourself as a new resident in his jurisdiction? Get to know him a little. Ask his advice about the situation. If he's not in when you swing by, explain to whoever is there, or leave a note, that you're new and would like to introduce yourself, leaving your address and phone number. Ask him over for coffee.

When I graduated high school, my patents retired to rural Virginia. Being 18, I, uh, got to know our local sheriff in short order.

(The night graduated I overindulged in beer. I was hitchhiking back home from the little town where we'd just moved, barefoot, with a case of beer under my arm. Legal drinking age was 21. A guy picked me up, had a friendly conversation with me, drove me to my parents front door, considerably off the highway, and dropped me off. As I got out of the car, he told me he was the sheriff...)

 

[rockquarry]

I've dealt with a number of similar aspects that are unique to living in rural areas. For me, it was an education in Small-Minded, USA. It's often difficult to deal with those who have an "ignorant and proud of it" mentality. Ultimately, things usually work out well, or that's been my experience. It may take a lot of work - the blood, sweat, and tears fee is the price.

There is no perfect place unless you're not very picky, but you can get pretty close even if you are picky.

 

[Rule3]

As the OP indicates he is a LEO, I also like the suggestion to go meet the Sheriff and introduce himself and ask what can be done about the neighbor.

 

[djohns6]

Have a conversation with the local Game Warden . It can't hurt .He may have some suggestion or insight into your situation .

 

[LoboGunLeather]

OP mentions an easement, which generally indicates certain rights of use, ingress, egress, etc. OP further states that both property owners have made use of that easement in the past, which may have created some legally recognized rights of usage as part of property interests. State laws vary so I would get legal advice on this topic prior to attempting to assert property owner rights.

In addition to possible ongoing rights to access of the easement I would seek legal advice on potential issues of estoppel, a legal concept of adverse usage gaining lawful standing after the passage of some defined time frame without objection or demand to cease.

We tend to wish these things were all simple and easy to understand, but it may be much less simple than who owns what land and who can exercise lawful control. A short consultation with an attorney knowledgeable in property laws now may avoid a legal battle later on. Even if legal action becomes necessary or advisable, a negotiated resolution is usually preferable to a court case.

 

[RetCapt]

"If fired upon, return fire."

I have tough time with this one. "...fired upon..." fails to adequately describe the circumstances. There is a difference between specific intent and negligence. Gross negligence, not mere negligence, is one of the legally described elements of intent. But, as I read the property descriptions there is some distance between the range and OP's property with a less than a visible field of view. If someone is firing on the neighbor's range, unaware that someone some distance away and not visible is in the field of fire, it is questionable if that is negligent, let alone grossly negligent. If they are firing over a barrier that is careless, and may be negligent. But the standard of proof is gross negligence.

This differs markedly from the more common instances where one faces one or more armed assailants and one has no choice but to use deadly force to prevent death or great bodily harm.

If one is receiving incoming fire from an invisible shooter, how effective can return fire be? Is there any possibility return fire can hit an uninvolved thus innocent third person?

A couple of things I stressed in my CCW classes.
1. Regardless of what the law allows, if one can avoid a deadly force confrontation, do so. Even in clean shootings, there are consequences. I have seen too many cops pay a very steep psychological price for using deadly force. It can never be unseen, for the rest of your life.
2. Always be sure of your target. That is one of the primary safety rules. If one can't see the shooter, how can one be certain of the target.

Given the high probability that return fire in this instance has little to no chance of disabling an unseen shooter, I think the better option would be to immediately seek cover.

In any deadly force incident, the burden of proof is on the shooter to prove the use of deadly force met the legal criteria and thus was legal.
This applies to all parties, but in this case I am referring to the one returning fire as that is the situation OP would find himself in.

Switching topics, I think the suggestion to meet and get acquainted with the local sheriff is outstanding. That is an ideal opportunity to establish one's credibility. In the event returning fire ever went to court, that would go to proving the OP's efforts to get the situation resolved before deadly force was used.

In my LE career I had several instances where I could have used deadly force. But I was able to use physical force to subdue the assailant. I did not have to live with not being able to unsee something.