Is it your opinion our tax payer money is a gift?
I would hope our expectations were outlined to some degree before.
Ukraine Gets $54.2 Billion - From the EU
- Thread starter biku324
- Start date
Is it your opinion our tax payer money is a gift?
I would hope our expectations were outlined to some degree before.
Lack of likes is telling.
cmj8591
Member
Except what we give Ukraine isn't a "gift". We're not giving them money to help them. We're giving them money to conduct a proxy war against the Russians on behalf of us and the EU. We're not giving them money to enrich Ukrainian politicians and generals. As an American tax payer, I expect them to buy mortar shells with the American tax dollars I'm giving them for mortar shells. I don't expect someone to put the money in their pocket. In my mind, that makes them no better than the Russians they're trying to push out.
OP
They sure kill a lot of invading Russians. Maybe we can pay Azerbaijan to fight a proxy war with Iran. 
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smithman 10
US Veteran
If I am not mistaken
That speech was written by Theodore Sorenson for the Inauguration. Who knows what Kennedy himself thought and what he might have done had he lived.
And while a stirring oration (and I heard it as a lad of 13) it is filled with promises that an incoming president, who can serve only a maximum of eight years, had no business making.
Just MHO. Very inspiring but perhaps in hindsight a lesson for all future presidents - along the lines of "don't promise things which you have no idea that future administrations will be able to deliver."
That speech was written by Theodore Sorenson for the Inauguration. Who knows what Kennedy himself thought and what he might have done had he lived.
And while a stirring oration (and I heard it as a lad of 13) it is filled with promises that an incoming president, who can serve only a maximum of eight years, had no business making.
Just MHO. Very inspiring but perhaps in hindsight a lesson for all future presidents - along the lines of "don't promise things which you have no idea that future administrations will be able to deliver."
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It's all about the money. Just follow it if you can. They do a great job of laundering it.
Let's be real, Ukraine is NOT going to win. Russia is going to keep the territory it has under its control. Russia is going to grind down anything Ukraine sends.
Besides tens of thousands of casualties, how much territory did Ukraine reclaim during it's much awaited/hyped spring/summer/fall offensive last year?
I had read that the average age of the Ukrainian soldier is 40+ years old. If that's true, it has no more young men left to sacrifice! What happens when there's no more Ukrainians? Where are they going to get more men to replace the barely trained men they currently send to their deaths? They're already sending barely trained women to fight. No amount of money/arms is going to do any good if there's nobody to use it. England and Sweden are openly talking about conscription.
With all the folks/farmers protesting against their governments in Europe, Germany, France, etc, you think those people are going to willingly go to war for Ukraine?
Are you pro-ukraine/war folks willing to send our military, YOUR kids, grandkids to fight and die for another country while ours is literally being invaded by millions of people? Is it worth it to risk a full-scale military conflict with Russia over Ukraine to include nukes, never mind the current state of our conventional military or the fools running it?
BTW, What does the average American citizen get out of war in Ukraine? I'd argue, nothing!
Its easy to cheer war on when one isn't actually fighting and safely behind the warm glow of a computer screen typing away, isn't it.
To add: In the end, the US government will abandon Ukraine, just like it abandoned everybody else when it's politically untenable.
Besides tens of thousands of casualties, how much territory did Ukraine reclaim during it's much awaited/hyped spring/summer/fall offensive last year?
I had read that the average age of the Ukrainian soldier is 40+ years old. If that's true, it has no more young men left to sacrifice! What happens when there's no more Ukrainians? Where are they going to get more men to replace the barely trained men they currently send to their deaths? They're already sending barely trained women to fight. No amount of money/arms is going to do any good if there's nobody to use it. England and Sweden are openly talking about conscription.
With all the folks/farmers protesting against their governments in Europe, Germany, France, etc, you think those people are going to willingly go to war for Ukraine?
Are you pro-ukraine/war folks willing to send our military, YOUR kids, grandkids to fight and die for another country while ours is literally being invaded by millions of people? Is it worth it to risk a full-scale military conflict with Russia over Ukraine to include nukes, never mind the current state of our conventional military or the fools running it?
BTW, What does the average American citizen get out of war in Ukraine? I'd argue, nothing!
Its easy to cheer war on when one isn't actually fighting and safely behind the warm glow of a computer screen typing away, isn't it.
To add: In the end, the US government will abandon Ukraine, just like it abandoned everybody else when it's politically untenable.
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OP
One should spend some time in the small republics surrounding the Russian bear before deciding from an armchair how things must be half a world away.
And we know for a fact that no tiny, ragtag bunch of freedom-loving people can possibly face down a world power....oh, wait.
And we know for a fact that no tiny, ragtag bunch of freedom-loving people can possibly face down a world power....oh, wait.
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I'll have another Coke.
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.
smithman 10
US Veteran
Anything can happen
Putin could (and will someday) die. Maybe the NATO powers will give them enough to hold on until the Russians get just as worn out. As for our ragtag victory over the British in our revolution, to which I assume you are referring, we had the help of England's major enemy, France. Without their help we would likely be part of Canada!
One should spend some time in the small republics surrounding the Russian bear before deciding from an armchair how things must be half a world away.
And we know for a fact that no tiny, ragtag bunch of freedom-loving people can possibly face down a world power....oh, wait.
Putin could (and will someday) die. Maybe the NATO powers will give them enough to hold on until the Russians get just as worn out. As for our ragtag victory over the British in our revolution, to which I assume you are referring, we had the help of England's major enemy, France. Without their help we would likely be part of Canada!
Yaworski
Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2016
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We're so good at meddling with other countries and deposing leaders, why don't we take care of Putin?
UncleEd
Member
I perceive a lot of 1930s/early 1940s "Fortress America"
being preached here. It's sweet music to Putin's ears.
being preached here. It's sweet music to Putin's ears.
I know of a bunch of rag tags who ousted two world powers.
UncleEd
Member
It's known that some of his possible succesors might be worse
at this time. Patience can be a most effective strategy.
Cartoon of Finnish sergeant during the Winter War:
So many Russians, where will we bury them all?
OP
Precisely!
We held on until the Brits decided the cost of keeping us was too high. Bless the French and especially bless Franklin, who convinced them to help.
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OP
The North Koreans kept out the whole free world with Chinese help as well by also being indigestible.
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To your list, biku, I would add that NATO has gotten to observe, study, and evaluate the Russian army's strategy and tactics for the cost of munitions and equipment only. I suspect that what we've learned has been invaluable. (That recent video of a Ukrainian-crewed Bradley disabling a Russian tank was amazing!)
Why tie those two separate issues together? I hear your argument a lot and, respectfully, it makes no sense to me. It's like saying you'll help your neighbor with an emergency in his home only after you change the locks on your house.
Everybody knows the border needs to be secured...but that problem has been around for years. Keeping Russia from winning this war is, in my opinion, at least as important to the long term security of the USA.
