SAP’s, Blackjacks, Carnies!
- Thread starter jsfricks
- Start date
My BIl, a deputy sheriff patrolled out in the boonies on the night shift. He had lots of problems with drunks and other belligerent people.
He was told back up was in route. Well both cars arrived and his back up was a old timer getting ready to retire. BIL was rather new and the older deputy went in he was carring a Billy in his left hand. They were outnumbered at the gin mill and one made a attack and grabbed the Billy Club. The old deputy let him have a hit from the little blackjack in his right hand that no one noticed and put him down hard on the floor. All got real quite then!
Took the hit drunk to the station. The old deputy with a smile told my brother in law I have been using this trick for years. They always watch the Billy they never see the sap.
He was told back up was in route. Well both cars arrived and his back up was a old timer getting ready to retire. BIL was rather new and the older deputy went in he was carring a Billy in his left hand. They were outnumbered at the gin mill and one made a attack and grabbed the Billy Club. The old deputy let him have a hit from the little blackjack in his right hand that no one noticed and put him down hard on the floor. All got real quite then!
Took the hit drunk to the station. The old deputy with a smile told my brother in law I have been using this trick for years. They always watch the Billy they never see the sap.
DWalt
Member
I have heard of a roll of pennies in a sock being used as an improvised blackjack.
DWalt
Member
I mentioned my blackjack grandpa story earlier. While he always kept a blackjack on his person, he also kept a similarly weighted cut-off pool cue handy nearby. He said he didn't want to carry a pistol because he would probably end up killing someone and he didn't want to do that.
No personal experience, but I've always read that a 4 or 5 "D" cell Maglight is just as good for "putting out someones lights" as it is for lighting up dark spaces
Kinda' like short nightstick with a light on one end.
You read correctly.
https://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=671621&d=1709856848
Hold that little sap in the palm of your hand. Witness would say the officer just slapped the drunk and he fell down.
Hold that little sap in the palm of your hand. Witness would say the officer just slapped the drunk and he fell down.
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1. Convoy Blackjack- 16 oz. 12" in length, steel spring with a round lead head, wrapped in weaved leather. a leather strap belt attached at the bottom and up to the lead head.
2. Attitude Ajustment Tool - a 16" 2" steel cable wrapped in tape with a walking cane rubber tip at both ends
2. Attitude Ajustment Tool - a 16" 2" steel cable wrapped in tape with a walking cane rubber tip at both ends
I carried a flat slapper for years. Seldom used, but very useful.
One time we were at a domestic where the husband was an AH First Class. He had battered his wife, but she refused to press charges. At the time, the DA would not prosecute if we had a disinterested prosecutrix.
The wife wanted to leave. Despite two vehicles in the driveway, the husband would not turn over the keys to either one. We had her pack up a few belongings so we could transport her for a medical checkup, then to a battered women's shelter.
We were leaving with her, going down a narrow stairway with concrete sides that led to the driveway. I deliberately was last in line thinking the husband would make a move towards her, which would have to be through me. That battery on a peace officer would make him arrestable, and then we could add on the domestic violence charge, and then maybe the DA would file.
The husband made his move as we were on the staircase. As he started to push me aside, I already had the slapper in my hand. So as I was being moved I came around and gave him 2 or 3 very quick blows to the head.
Fight was over instantly. Took him to the county hospital to get his head stitched up, then to jail. As I was also the command duty officer, I called the on-call judge to get the bail raised to where he would not get out until he want to court. Judges were extremely cooperative on such matters.
As soon as he appeared in court he started to tell the judge what had happened, and here he was, severely injured. But the judge had the report in front of him, so he did not want to hear any of it from the defendant.
Since the husband was in jail, at least until court, the wife got to go back inside her home.
I never got a subpoena for court, so I assume at some point he pled out.
We never got another call at that house.
One time we were at a domestic where the husband was an AH First Class. He had battered his wife, but she refused to press charges. At the time, the DA would not prosecute if we had a disinterested prosecutrix.
The wife wanted to leave. Despite two vehicles in the driveway, the husband would not turn over the keys to either one. We had her pack up a few belongings so we could transport her for a medical checkup, then to a battered women's shelter.
We were leaving with her, going down a narrow stairway with concrete sides that led to the driveway. I deliberately was last in line thinking the husband would make a move towards her, which would have to be through me. That battery on a peace officer would make him arrestable, and then we could add on the domestic violence charge, and then maybe the DA would file.
The husband made his move as we were on the staircase. As he started to push me aside, I already had the slapper in my hand. So as I was being moved I came around and gave him 2 or 3 very quick blows to the head.
Fight was over instantly. Took him to the county hospital to get his head stitched up, then to jail. As I was also the command duty officer, I called the on-call judge to get the bail raised to where he would not get out until he want to court. Judges were extremely cooperative on such matters.
As soon as he appeared in court he started to tell the judge what had happened, and here he was, severely injured. But the judge had the report in front of him, so he did not want to hear any of it from the defendant.
Since the husband was in jail, at least until court, the wife got to go back inside her home.
I never got a subpoena for court, so I assume at some point he pled out.
We never got another call at that house.
charlie sherrill
Member
Mine had that pocket from when I started in 1969 until the early 80's.
Or how about a roll of nickles/quarters being used as a substitute for brass knuckles?
Ingramite
Member
Custom Turban Installation
I never got paid to dance and only a sucker fights fair.
After 6 years in a scout car I finally got a walking beat downtown.
The first thing that I did was to commission the creation of a rosewood nightstick with German silver tips. These tips and the strategic placement of the thong holes made for a stick that was perfectly balanced to spin. There was a guy who ran a machine shop and he made these sticks for coppers who walked the beat.
So it took me a while to learn to spin but I finally became pretty good at it. Sure, it looked flashy but the real reason to perfect the skill was it was a "nice" way to keep people away from you.
When in the scout car my biggest fear was snipers in the high rise housing project. Walking the beat brought a whole new set of concerns to the table....like crossing the street at a busy intersection where I had to walk inches away from the front bumper of a car sitting there in drive. Crowded downtown sidewalks became another area of concern and a spinning nightstick kept people back.
The city had antique cast metal light poles, 6 of them to a city block. We all had the habit of tapping them as we walked past. I could hear the taps from the coppers walking the adjacent beats. They all had a distinctive ring when tapped but I was listening for a bang that meant to get over here, pronto Tonto.
On each corner was either a police call box or a fire alarm. One block would have a call box and the next a fire alarm box. Like that, alternating corners. I had 6 of these police call boxes on my beat and this is where I stored stuff I didn't want to pack around on me. Stuff like blank reports and books of parking tickets. You never knew what you would find in those call boxes because every copper in the city was issued a key to them. About 60% of the call boxes actually worked as they were supposed to.
The times that I had to use my slapper were always like a last ditch weapon. The fear of doing severe damage to the person that I was attempting to subdue always ran a distant second to concerns for my own survival.
Being right handed meant that my left hand was used for these striking weapons. This added another layer of difficulty to learning to effectively strike or even spin the stick.
When in a scout car it was an audit item to always have your stick on your belt and your lid on your head when you were out of the car. If you got caught it was a write up for being out of uniform. Guys who got pinched for this kind of stuff usually had other issues brewing.....disciplinary stuff.
When on a walking beat you better have your stick off your belt and either in your hand or under your arm. A passing scout car would normally slow to check on you if your stick was still on your belt. A stick held in the air was another signal that would curb a passing scout car.
Twice a day I had fixed post assignments that meant I'd be in a busy downtown intersection swinging traffic. Oh yeah, whistle and white gloves...and I better either have them or have them stashed in a nearby call box.
Inner city policing in the 70's and 80's.
I never got paid to dance and only a sucker fights fair.
After 6 years in a scout car I finally got a walking beat downtown.
The first thing that I did was to commission the creation of a rosewood nightstick with German silver tips. These tips and the strategic placement of the thong holes made for a stick that was perfectly balanced to spin. There was a guy who ran a machine shop and he made these sticks for coppers who walked the beat.
So it took me a while to learn to spin but I finally became pretty good at it. Sure, it looked flashy but the real reason to perfect the skill was it was a "nice" way to keep people away from you.
When in the scout car my biggest fear was snipers in the high rise housing project. Walking the beat brought a whole new set of concerns to the table....like crossing the street at a busy intersection where I had to walk inches away from the front bumper of a car sitting there in drive. Crowded downtown sidewalks became another area of concern and a spinning nightstick kept people back.
The city had antique cast metal light poles, 6 of them to a city block. We all had the habit of tapping them as we walked past. I could hear the taps from the coppers walking the adjacent beats. They all had a distinctive ring when tapped but I was listening for a bang that meant to get over here, pronto Tonto.
On each corner was either a police call box or a fire alarm. One block would have a call box and the next a fire alarm box. Like that, alternating corners. I had 6 of these police call boxes on my beat and this is where I stored stuff I didn't want to pack around on me. Stuff like blank reports and books of parking tickets. You never knew what you would find in those call boxes because every copper in the city was issued a key to them. About 60% of the call boxes actually worked as they were supposed to.
The times that I had to use my slapper were always like a last ditch weapon. The fear of doing severe damage to the person that I was attempting to subdue always ran a distant second to concerns for my own survival.
Being right handed meant that my left hand was used for these striking weapons. This added another layer of difficulty to learning to effectively strike or even spin the stick.
When in a scout car it was an audit item to always have your stick on your belt and your lid on your head when you were out of the car. If you got caught it was a write up for being out of uniform. Guys who got pinched for this kind of stuff usually had other issues brewing.....disciplinary stuff.
When on a walking beat you better have your stick off your belt and either in your hand or under your arm. A passing scout car would normally slow to check on you if your stick was still on your belt. A stick held in the air was another signal that would curb a passing scout car.
Twice a day I had fixed post assignments that meant I'd be in a busy downtown intersection swinging traffic. Oh yeah, whistle and white gloves...and I better either have them or have them stashed in a nearby call box.
Inner city policing in the 70's and 80's.
Grayfox
US Veteran
My F-I-L was head of security for a local grocery store chain. He always had a sap in his back pocket. Been known to use it too. 
1973, I was a young troop at Ft. Hood, Texas. My unit drew "Riot Control" duty for 3 months. We trained seriously for it. We were trained in the use of the Baton by a guy who had been a Chicago cop in '68. I still remember much of it. Amazing how much damage you can do with a stick and never even come close to their head.
Today in Tennessee we have permitless carry of firearms, but as I understand it you still need special certification in order to have a blackjack, sap or baton on your person legally.
1973, I was a young troop at Ft. Hood, Texas. My unit drew "Riot Control" duty for 3 months. We trained seriously for it. We were trained in the use of the Baton by a guy who had been a Chicago cop in '68. I still remember much of it. Amazing how much damage you can do with a stick and never even come close to their head.
Today in Tennessee we have permitless carry of firearms, but as I understand it you still need special certification in order to have a blackjack, sap or baton on your person legally.
I have two slappers around here somewhere. A big one and a little one. Also a pair of sap gloves. I was about to say I don't know where the gloves are either but I just noticed they're on the mantle along with a couple of sticks.
There's a Aetco side handle over in the corner somewhere. Oh, the big slapper is on the mantle too. It's a S&W. The short one is probably also a S&W. Wow, there's more junk up there than I realized. Four pairs of handcuffs, my old beat up ticket book holder and one of my old name tags. And a Bush Quayle 88 bumper sticker, St Charles County Police Accademy cap, a couple of bar mugs from a long defunct Oahu restaurant I worked at and more stuff too. I'll have to investigate further. I need to give some of this stuff to my son if he's at all interested.
There's a Aetco side handle over in the corner somewhere. Oh, the big slapper is on the mantle too. It's a S&W. The short one is probably also a S&W. Wow, there's more junk up there than I realized. Four pairs of handcuffs, my old beat up ticket book holder and one of my old name tags. And a Bush Quayle 88 bumper sticker, St Charles County Police Accademy cap, a couple of bar mugs from a long defunct Oahu restaurant I worked at and more stuff too. I'll have to investigate further. I need to give some of this stuff to my son if he's at all interested.
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I paid about three dollars for the black Jack over in my home town New Brighton. I threw on the old shoestring to keep the leather from completely rotting off. The night sticks were pretty much dime a dozen at the Army/Navy stores. I bought the smaller nightstick for fishing for Muskies. Never got to use it. Right here is about eight dollars I could’ve used to buy beer!
Attachments
Ingramite
Member
My night stick was like an extension of my arm and hand. Anything that I didn't want to touch was probed with the stick. I never stood in front of a door that I had to knock on. I would stand as far to the side as possible and knock with my stick.
Head shots were discouraged because there were rumors of sticks breaking. A sharp jab to the chest or a rap across the shins would raise a drunk from the dead.
Head shots were discouraged because there were rumors of sticks breaking. A sharp jab to the chest or a rap across the shins would raise a drunk from the dead.
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Flattop5
Member
I have a police baton from circa 1990. It looks exactly like this one (i.e., it's a Monadnock PR-24):
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I have a police baton from circa 1990. It looks exactly like this one (i.e., it's a Monadnock PR-24):
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Bought a plastic Streamlight flashlight and retired the 4 cell B Light. Got a PR 24 to replace it.
There are a lot of door frames with round dents in them from me knocking with old Monadnock.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I think the PC term today is little person. He must be getting a bit long in the tooth by now.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Columbus, PD sold equipment to cadets at cost in the 60's and early 70's. I got a 4 D-cell light (similar to a Mag Light) for $17.39, They had changed regs, and weren't allowed to carry them. Everyone that needed it must be struck with a PR-24. My F-I-L had been grandfathered in for a horizontal type of sap. The leather covered lead bar ran parallel to the knuckles, think of a saddle stirrup shape. I watched him knock on doors during outrageous parties! Nobody could say they didn't hear it... a block away!
Ivan
Ivan
While in the academy we were told to get a blackjack or slapper but were not trained with them. We were allowed to carry wood nightsticks but it was suggested we buy a Monadnock. My first night reporting for work at midnight to walk the downtown beat the Desk Sgt (after he stopped laughing at the “12 year old in uniform”) asked if I had Sap gloves. Professing we had not been told to get them he loaned me his with the admonition to go to the uniform shop the next day and buy some. I complied with his directive. They came in handy several times. Several weeks later a seasoned officer asked if I had a “day” stick (short nightstick rides in the slap pocket of the uniform pants). Again I had to say we were not told to get one. He also sent me packing to the uniform store with instructions to order one and get it “loaded”. This was a short Monadnock stick drilled out to accommodate a lead rod in the end. That also came in handy on occasion. Sad was the day at roll call we were told that all this supplemental equipment was henceforth not allowed to be carried - this included the new fangled hinge cuffs and expandable Monadnock battons some of us were carrying. The only impact weapon allowed was the good old straight stick. After I retired they went to the ASP battons and still use them.
