SAP’s, Blackjacks, Carnies!

[DWalt]

What was that thing called which was sort of a telescoping spring with a weight on the end? I have seen several of them, do not remember the name.

 

[Kitgun]

When I was a kid (long ago) the old time neighborhood cop referred to low life criminals as "sap dodgers"

 

[pharmer]

I only recently retired my "tune up handle" that rode with me for over 40 years. 31" from a "Fitzall Backhoe" (Fitz'all hands). At 70 I figure I'm just as likely to get a beating with it as give one. Joe

 

[Baxter6551]

DWalt the spring with the lead weight on the end covered in leather is a black Jack. The flat piece of lead with a flat handle covered in leather is a Slap Jack

 

[CajunBass]

My first ex-wife worked for the Richmond Sherriffs Department for a couple of years. She was what they called in those days a "matron" at the city jail. Someone gave her a couple of "blackjacks" for lack of a more informed term. I've seen ones like them in various pictures in this thread. She never used them for anything, just bought them home, showed them to me, and put them in a drawer. No idea what happened to them.

At that time I was working as a security guard. I bought a nightstick to wear with my uniform. I kept it next to my car seat most of the time. One afternoon a car cut me off in traffic, then stopped. The driver got out ranting and cussing as he started toward me. I had no idea what this was all about, but being even stupider then, than I am now, I got out too. As I got out, I reached down and took out that nightstick, then smacked it across my palm and said nothing. The other guy calmed down right away, raised his hands, palms out and 'Sorry bro...wrong car." and got back in his car and drove off.

Man that was STUPID! He could have killed me. Never again.

 

[AJ]

My Father always carried an 18" length of thin wall conduit behind the seat of his car. This was in the 50's& 60's.

 

[Bald1]

A couple days ago a deputy sheriff was killed at a casino in Batavia NY. The news reported he was struck several times with a chain the assailant wore around his neck. It was obviously used in the same fashion as the homemade examples above. The guy looked pretty scrawny. I wish NY had capital punishment.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

My Father used to tell tales of his time with the Phoenix PD in the late sixties, early seventies. My Father was a big, strong, tough SOB back in his day. He had a partner that was a short, little runt of a man.

Whenever they got in those folks that were...a bit more special his runt of a partner would knock his own glasses askew. Untuck his shirt. Mess up his gig line. My large, imposing Father would then decide to take care of some business downstairs while they were heading into booking. He would sternly warn the intake to be nice to his little buddy while he left them alone in the elevator.

Of course...they didn't. They inevitably took the bait and decided to go after the poor runty little officer they had been left unattended with. Who happened to be a Golden Gloves boxer. Who was wearing sap gloves. And took great amusement in beating the brakes off those who underestimated and attacked him.

While amusing, My father later expressed regrets in all that. I guess his partner darn near beat a guy retarded at one point. Either way you look at it, he spent his time around these instruments and learned a hearty respect for them that he passed onto me.

Y'all have convinced me. I'm currently considering trading my OC off for a decent small sap as an intermediate off duty weapon. Yes, it's legal here.

It happens to be my Friday, and I got a fresh paycheck!

 

[Redcoat3340]

As a kid in the 50's I remember my uncle who was a county cop. He had a sap he show me and used to send me into darn near spasms of joy when he'd unload his pistol and let me actually hold it!

And I also recall him putting on a show with his nightstick on a lanyard and how he could make it spin and twirl and every time he'd let me try I'd bonk myself with it.

He developed cancer in his right leg which they took off at the hip and for many years was the only one-legged cop in the country (he worked communications at Nassau County, NY HQ as it was before civilian employees. He retired after 30 years.)

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

Wulp...a bit shy of $100 later, I have two coming in. One of them is the Boston Leather Midget, and the other is the Boston Leather Texan. I just couldn't decide between power vs. ease of carry, so I got both. There is an element of coolness altogether. That having been said, I am of the belief that "in blunt force trauma, I trust."

 

[AJ]

Wulp...a bit shy of $100 later, I have two coming in. One of them is the Boston Leather Midget, and the other is the Boston Leather Texan. I just couldn't decide between power vs. ease of carry, so I got both. There is an element of coolness altogether. That having been said, I am of the belief that "in blunt force trauma, I trust."

I am of the belief that it is best to be prepared. However, at my age do not want to get to close if I do not have to do so. So........in Colt/S&W/Ruger do I trust!

 

[BC38]

What was that thing called which was sort of a telescoping spring with a weight on the end? I have seen several of them, do not remember the name.

I've seen them described as a telescoping spring baton.
If you do an internet search for those words a number of links come up, most of them are sites selling self defense gear.

The thing I always thought was pretty cool about them is they collapse down short enough to carry in a pocket, but when opened they are as long as a short billy club. If you've ever been whacked by a spring, you know they are going to be pretty effective.

 

[paknheat]

Wulp...a bit shy of $100 later, I have two coming in. One of them is the Boston Leather Midget, and the other is the Boston Leather Texan. I just couldn't decide between power vs. ease of carry, so I got both. There is an element of coolness altogether. That having been said, I am of the belief that "in blunt force trauma, I trust."

Gets expensive quickly, where did you buy them from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

Mine are coming from "Police Baton Warehouse", but them Boston ones seem pretty ubiquitous- coulda gotten them from several places, but price seemed reasonable, and shipping was free. Kinda like the only manufactured choice to be had without some off brand BudK overseas stuff.

My daughter and I worked until 3 AM making one last night. It'a a very cool project to do together. If nothing else, it's teaching us that the custom ones for $100 or more are actually a pretty darn good deal. Of course, I'll post pics of our monstrosity when it's completed. She wants to make half a dozen more for gifts and such.

Hanging in our sidetrack minds are the coin purses and such made be DeSantis and Mean Gene Leather products. I'd like to try one of those too. I can come up with reason to replace my off duty OC with one of these, but I don't get why the saps are just so darn cool and interesting!

 

[old bear]

I carried a flat slapper for years. Seldom used, but very useful.

One time we were at a domestic where the husband was an AH First Class. He had battered his wife, but she refused to press charges. At the time, the DA would not prosecute if we had a disinterested prosecutrix.

The wife wanted to leave. Despite two vehicles in the driveway, the husband would not turn over the keys to either one. We had her pack up a few belongings so we could transport her for a medical checkup, then to a battered women's shelter.

We were leaving with her, going down a narrow stairway with concrete sides that led to the driveway. I deliberately was last in line thinking the husband would make a move towards her, which would have to be through me. That battery on a peace officer would make him arrestable, and then we could add on the domestic violence charge, and then maybe the DA would file.

The husband made his move as we were on the staircase. As he started to push me aside, I already had the slapper in my hand. So as I was being moved I came around and gave him 2 or 3 very quick blows to the head.

Fight was over instantly. Took him to the county hospital to get his head stitched up, then to jail. As I was also the command duty officer, I called the on-call judge to get the bail raised to where he would not get out until he want to court. Judges were extremely cooperative on such matters.

As soon as he appeared in court he started to tell the judge what had happened, and here he was, severely injured. But the judge had the report in front of him, so he did not want to hear any of it from the defendant.

Since the husband was in jail, at least until court, the wife got to go back inside her home.

I never got a subpoena for court, so I assume at some point he pled out.

We never got another call at that house.

Capt. thank you. Those were the days, when common sense generally worked out for the best for everyone.

 

[Muley Gil]

I am of the belief that it is best to be prepared. However, at my age do not want to get to close if I do not have to do so. So........in Colt/S&W/Ruger do I trust!

Elmer Keith once wrote that a true gunman wouldn't risk busting up his knuckles in a fist fight.

 

[jsfricks]

Mine are coming from "Police Baton Warehouse", but them Boston ones seem pretty ubiquitous- coulda gotten them from several places, but price seemed reasonable, and shipping was free. Kinda like the only manufactured choice to be had without some off brand BudK overseas stuff.

My daughter and I worked until 3 AM making one last night. It'a a very cool project to do together. If nothing else, it's teaching us that the custom ones for $100 or more are actually a pretty darn good deal. Of course, I'll post pics of our monstrosity when it's completed. She wants to make half a dozen more for gifts and such.

Hanging in our sidetrack minds are the coin purses and such made be DeSantis and Mean Gene Leather products. I'd like to try one of those too. I can come up with reason to replace my off duty OC with one of these, but I don't get why the saps are just so darn cool and interesting!

If you’re on Facebook you can follow Foster Impact Devices. The two brothers make some of the best I’ve seen and he puts them up for sale on Saturdays starting at noon ET.

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

I would like y'all to meet "Big Ugly" Big Ugly is 8.5" and 14.5 oz of bipedal recalibration.

"Big Ugly" isn't a reference to size, but rather the amount of crooked stitching and asymmetrical dimensions. It has three layers of leather, a sawzall blade for the spring steel handle, and two lead ingots from a half filled mini muffin tin from back in the days when I was casting my own bullets. It uhmmm...strikes me as being a highly effective impact weapon.

It was a real fun Father/Daughter project. I'm pretty sure we were the only folks in Michael's that were purchasing materials for making a striking implement.

We learned alot. The next one should take much less time and look much nicer!

 

[AJ]

If you’re on Facebook you can follow Foster Impact Devices. The two brothers make some of the best I’ve seen and he puts them up for sale on Saturdays starting at noon ET.

I would like y'all to meet "Big Ugly" Big Ugly is 8.5" and 14.5 oz of bipedal recalibration.

"Big Ugly" isn't a reference to size, but rather the amount of crooked stitching and asymmetrical dimensions. It has three layers of leather, a sawzall blade for the spring steel handle, and two lead ingots from a half filled mini muffin tin from back in the days when I was casting my own bullets. It uhmmm...strikes me as being a highly effective impact weapon.

It was a real fun Father/Daughter project. I'm pretty sure we were the only folks in Michael's that were purchasing materials for making a striking implement.

We learned alot. The next one should take much less time and look much nicer!

If those ingots were from my lead casting muffin mold, they would weight about a pound each! Not good to whack someone in the gourd!

 

[Shrek Of The Arctic]

Using two partially filled ones (7 oz each) I'm just shy of a pound. A single fully filled one comes in at 11 oz.

Funny thing the state law here...If using an impact weapon below the shoulders, it remains a level of intermediate/ non deadly force. As soon as a strike is made to the neck and shoulder area though, then it sll becomes lethal force. So...the asset with a sap, baton, etc. Is that it can immediately make that transition if required. The liability is thst you better know what you're doing and have your temper under wraps.

OC is kind of a **** sandwich that everyone gets s bite of-The objective is to make them take a bigger bite than you. I've seen it take half a minute to a full minute to take effect. Heck, when I got sprayed for certification I had plenty of time to subdue and restrain my suspect, and slow walk 25 yards or so before it kicked in. Then it didn't really hurt until I decon'ed. Myzelf and most men I know can do a heckuva lot of damage inside of 30 seconds. Lots can go wrong with wind conditions, small spaces, etc. as well.

Tasers are...interesting. darn sure work most of the time. Test arcing/ drive stun is terrifying. Makes me wince when I'm the one holding it. Problem is getting a good spread from the probes in a dynamic situation. Coats and outer wear are another matter, especially in an Arctic climate. When I was certified, there was a gal behind me that was crying, darn near in a panic. At the end of the line, she had already seen 30-40 something people get hit. I thought that when I got hit, instead of throwing out every enunciation of the F bomb known to man I'd say "It's not so bad" to be encouraging. That came out to roughly "YABBA YAAAARRGGGHHH!!"
I found that I could still move while under power, but no way would I keep up with the folks who weren't under power.

All this to say there are times and places, assets and liabilities to every intermediate force device. The impact weapon has it's as well.

But...all the OC, tasers, ASPs ever made could never equal the old school coolness of these old saps and blackjacks, or the stories told by the old timers who used them.