Authenticating a 3rd model Perfected 22 with H.M. Pope stamp

[TrainorSW]

My wife and I recently inherited a 3rd model Perfected 22LR pistol with the 10" barrel from her grandfather, along with some other really special firearms. When it arrived I saw where it is marked H.M. Pope on top of the barrel. In the quick research I've done so far I've noticed that it requires some extra effort to seat a cartridge that last 1/16 to 1/8 inch, indicating an "Olympic" barrel. Are there other indicators I can look for to further authenticate that this is indeed an H.M. Pope barreled pistol? The sn is in the 78xx range.
Thank you very much!

 

[Vidd]

pope barrel

My wife and I recently inherited a 3rd model Perfected 22LR pistol with the 10" barrel from her grandfather, along with some other really special firearms. When it arrived I saw where it is marked H.M. Pope on top of the barrel. In the quick research I've done so far I've noticed that it requires some extra effort to seat a cartridge that last 1/16 to 1/8 inch, indicating an "Olympic" barrel. Are there other indicators I can look for to further authenticate that this is indeed an H.M. Pope barreled pistol? The sn is in the 78xx range.
Thank you very much!

open the barrel look down from breach should be left hand twist on the rifilling also a number stamped on bottom of the back of barrel

 

[red9]

Vidd is correct that all Pope barrels are left hand twist and very few others are, Colt being the main exception. If you look down the barrel and follow a groove away from you, it should rotate counterclockwise. Also, a 22 caliber barrel cannot be re-rifled to the same caliber. Therefor, the barrel would be sleeved with a liner. The ring is there, but may be very difficult to see. The Pope marking does appear correct.

Third Model Single Shot With Messed Up Barrel

Bob

 

[rct269]

And when you get through convincing yourself that you really do have what you think you have, count your blessings, give thanks to the gun gods, and buy a lottery ticket------you're on a roll!!

Ralph Tremaine

And having now looked at the pictures, it appears also your pistol has been converted to single action----no doubt also by Pope.

Buy TWO lottery tickets!!

And as an aside, I both wonder at and admire your tenacity in attempting to confirm your very good fortune. I would have simply wet my pants, and called it a day!!

 

[TrainorSW]

Update with an interesting bit of info

Wow! As I've done some more research this morning I'm really amazed at what we've been blessed with. It does indeed have the left-hand twist to the rifling. I sincerely appreciate all of your responses! I had been thinking about taking it to the range and using SV or even subsonic ammo. Now I think I'll leave it in the safe. Thanks again!

Edit: Using a magnifying glass I was able to better make out the number on the bottom of the barrel,which I initially thought was a "440" is actually "G77". I had read it upside down. I read in an earlier post that the Pope barrels were numbered consecutively regardless of the model of gun they were going on. Might the alpha-numeric code mean that there are different series, or do they all begin with "G"? Thanks again!

 

[rct269]

While it will be happy in the safe, It will likely be happier showing off at the range.

I once did a test of the two Olympic Models (same church, different pew as your Pope) from S&W (early and late)---and a standard 3rd Model------like yours used to be. (The S&W versions also sport zero (negative actually) throat---that which necessitates having to force the cartridge into the barrel. The test was 25 rounds fired from each pistol at 25 yards---from a seated position/two hand hold/with a rest. The standard pistol made all 10 ring with a few in the X ring. Both Olympic models put all 25 rounds in the X ring----dead center!!

A good many folks who thought of themselves as "shooters" complained the early Olympic Model was too difficult to load, so S&W lengthened the chamber by about .025". I reckon that made it easier to load, but you'd have to have some pretty sensitive measuring equipment to tell the difference----and the complaints continued. The "Olympic Chamber" carried over to the early Straight Line pistol---with an even longer chamber ----and the complaints continued. At that point S&W gave up, and the later Straight Lines have standard chambers----yet another example of folks who didn't know when they were well off----those who may be considered as dumb as a rock!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Vidd]

pope barrel

Wow! As I've done some more research this morning I'm really amazed at what we've been blessed with. It does indeed have the left-hand twist to the rifling. I sincerely appreciate all of your responses! I had been thinking about taking it to the range and using SV or even subsonic ammo. Now I think I'll leave it in the safe. Thanks again!

Edit: Using a magnifying glass I was able to better make out the number on the bottom of the barrel,which I initially thought was a "440" is actually "G77". I had read it upside down. I read in an earlier post that the Pope barrels were numbered consecutively regardless of the model of gun they were going on. Might the alpha-numeric code mean that there are different series, or do they all begin with "G"? Thanks again!

I think the number might be 677 not sure about it being a G . also ck for serial number on barrel under the latch should match the frame number.

 

[Retired W4]

The stocks are reminiscent of what Mr. Roper did on the H&R USRA single shot. That's not to say they were actually done by Roper.

 

[TrainorSW]

Thank you all again for the thoughtful responses. I took the grip off and can see no markings of any kind on the grip, and not much underneath aside from a small "16" near the bottom of the frame itself. Sadly, I have no history for this pistol. I know that it probably came from the collection of my wife's grandfather, who was a highly regarded gunsmith, machinist, and marksman in central Iowa. It will never leave the family, but it is fun to learn about the history of these guns (and any gun, to my mind anyway). I ordered a book about Mr. Pope and his barrels from the library that I am looking forward to reading. I recall reading an article probably 40-45 years ago in Guns Digest about a grumpy old barrel maker. Memories of that article stick with me to this day. I'll have to do some research and see if it was about Mr. Pope.

 

[rct269]

Take the grips off again---and look again---this time with STRONG lighting (photography strong lighting) at maybe a 45 degree angle----and see what you see---also from an angle.

As an alternative, take a/some flash pictures (from an angle----maybe from several different angles)------and see what you see. You may already know you're looking for pencil markings---at least that's my recollection---and pencil doesn't age well---hence all this strong light and viewing from an angle business.

The bottom line is I had one each of all the single shots, 5 of the 3rd Models (6/8/10" barrels, and both Olympic models), and all of them were wearing their original grips-----and you couldn't see any of the markings without getting fancy with this angle business.

Ralph Tremaine