.380 or .38 special?

[rockquarry]

I would definitely go with the Model 49. No reason other than it is infinitely cooler than some plastic .380 and since you will almost certainly never need either one you might as well be cool.

I agree, but the newschoolers and the synthetic handgun followers are here to stay and their guns apparently work well, even if they fall way short on looks.

 

[alwslate]

I would definitely go with the Model 49. No reason other than it is infinitely cooler than some plastic .380 and since you will almost certainly never need either one you might as well be cool.

Sadly if you are carrying concealed that extra weight of the 49 in your pocket over the "plastic" .380 is all for naught. No one will be able to see how cool you are.

 

[sigp220.45]

Sadly if you are carrying concealed that extra weight of the 49 in your pocket over the "plastic" .380 is all for naught. No one will be able to see how cool you are.

But I would know………

 

[Krogen]

I've been pocket carrying a Ruger LCP Max in .380 now for about a year and have come to believe that I can do better.
<snip>
Rich

As you requested, there are plenty of opinions and good food for thought in response to your post. I'd like to turn it back to you and ask what your objective is by making the change. I assume you're looking for a "bigger bang" than the .380 offers. You've acknowledged the compromise it requires. Granted you have two guns available, but is it worth looking at a third solution? One that offers more "bang" but with a different set of compromises.

 

[smoothshooter]

Good choice.
Caliber doesn't matter, but a reliable design does. Spending a lot of money on ammo for functionality testing is required with any auto. A box or less of ammo will tell you what you need to know about a revolver.
Ballistically, the .38 is superior in almost every way to a .380 (and I really like .380) and alternately carry both calibers.
With two decent hits, all handgun calibers perform about the same. One-shot stop data is almost worthless.
Any attacker worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.

 

[BB57]

Both .380 ACP, and standard pressure .38 are both marginal calibers from a terminal ballistics perspective, but that just doesn't matter in about 99% of armed citizen defensive handgun uses.

The important issue is what do you shoot really well? Go with that.

 

[jimmyj]

My EDC is a Glock Model 43X that I added a steel magazine lock and use 15 round shield magazines. (Agency furnishes 9mm ammo) However my B/U is a S&W Model 642. (modern dude but my old school upbring still likes a "Wheel Gun")

 

[BB57]

Good choice.
Caliber doesn't matter, but a reliable design does. Spending a lot of money on functionality testing is required with any auto. A box or less of ammo will will tell you what you need to know about a revolver.
Ballistically, the .38 is superior in almost every way.

Agreed.

Reliability testing is important.

With a semi auto that normally involves 200 rounds of your intended carry load, with no malfunctions using all the magazines you intend to carry.

.380 ACP pistols in general can be un reliable with hollow points. The Walther PP series and their numerous FEG clones in particular are very hit and miss from model to model, pistol to pistol and from hollow point type to hollow point type.

——

With a revolver the main concerns are:

- light strikes (especially with a lighter hammer springs to reduce the DA trigger pull); and

- the bullet backing out of the case under recoil. If it gets out in front of the cylinder it will lock the revolver cylinder. I'll test for this by leaving a round in the cylinder for 12 or so shots and ensuring it's OAL doesn't increase and repeat it with 3-4 different rounds.

Another concern is large unburnt powder grains that can get under the ejector star abs prevent a reload, but that's more of a concern with colloidal ball powders used in .357, .41 and .44 magnum loads.

Timing can also be an issue in DA fire, as the cylinder can stop during a slow DA pull.

However as noted above a box of ammo is generally enough to verify that none of those issues are present.

——


From a terminal ballistics perspective, many of the shorter barrel .380 ACP pistols will not generate enough velocity to get consistent expansion and adequate penetration with many hollow points. Many shooters just opt to use FMJs, although .380 ACP hollow points and loads have improved to the point that good hollow point performance is possible, provided tou you match the hollow point to the gun and the velocity it generates. .380 ACP hollow points have very narrow velocity envelopes where they perform well and can meet FBI standards for expansion and penetration.

The Hornady 90 gr XTP performs well, but only if you can get 1000-1050 fps out of the pistol. That's very tough to achieve in a 2.85" barrel but is much more obtainable in a 3.5"-4.0" barrel.

90 gr Sig V-crowns will expand well around 850-900 fps and give 12"-13" penetration but will under penetrate at higher velocities.

90 gr Hornady critical defense also gives 12"-13" penetration at around 900 fps but will also under penetrate in a longer barrel at higher velocities.

All the federal, Remington and PMC loads I have gel tested failed to consistently expand and over penetrated.

Now…that's not all bad as while for example the 102 gr Golden Sabers might only expand 40% of the time, you get good performance when they do expand, and they perform like an FMJ with plenty of penetration when they don't.

The 90 gr Speer Gold Dots, 85 gr Win silver tips, 95 gr MagTech, Winchester 95 gr PDX 1 and the Win train and defend loads all consistently expand well but under penetrate. I can live with 11" from a gold dot, but 8" from the MagTech or train and defend loads are just not acceptable to me and FMJ is a better choice than those under penetrating loads.

——

If you hand load you have a lot more control over velocity but you definitely need a chronograph and I'm personally only comfortable with a load after I have gel tested the load in my carry gun(s). Not many folks are willing to invest tiphe time or money into gel testing.

Hollow point bullet options are limited to the Hornady XTP, Sig V-crown, and Speer Gold Dot plus various old tech bulk rounds that perform like FMJs.

Berrys and Xtreme both make hybrid hollow points designed to expand for self defense purposes. So far I have not been impressed with the Berry's bullets as they over expand ans or fragment and under penetrate. However I've gotten much better results from the Xtreme bphollow points in .380, 9mm and ,45 ACP. The velocity envelopes are very narrow, it within their envelops performance is superb and they are very cost effective.


——-

.38 Special can have similar terminal performance issues. However I've gotten good results in 2-3" barrels with 125 gr Remington Golden Sabers (particularly the +P loads), and the Winchester 130 gr gr +P loads.

The 110 gr Hornady Critical Defense does well in a 2-3" barrel but the 90 gr lite loads consistently under penetrate.

 

[cometpx4]

J Frame

Sorry to stray a little, but I just picked up a 632 UC in .32 mag. 6 shots and .32 mag fills the stat sheet. Ammo is a little pricey and sometimes out of stock, but I just make sure I have 6 rounds on hand until I can restock.
It does everything a .38 can do, gives you a little extra capacity and .380 isn't even close in terms of ballistics.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Three decades OTJ. two decades retired. All carrying a J frame. While I carry a 442 a 340 PD is even lighter. Yeah, I own a G42 but I would much rather have the J frame for the day evil comes.

Why? Hotter +P load and I know if I pull the trigger five times, it will shoot five times. Dependability is #1 in my book.

Every auto I've ever had has had a problem of some sort at one time or another. Trust is one thing, so is training and comfort with your weapon. Eighteen years academy FA instructor most with autos. Yet for me a J frame is my happy place. It fits my hand, wrist and arm like it grew there. It does what I require. YMMV and that's OK too. Find what works and stick with it. Nobody else's opinion matters, just your comfort zone.

 

[rockquarry]

But I would know………

Yes, that's what's important, not someone else's opinion as to what you should do.

 

[jkmo]

Carry both depending on the situation

 

[Guevera]

Maybe it is just me, but I can shoot this Beretta a whole lot better than the S&W. It holds a lot more rounds, too.

 

[fordson]

In the discussion between caliber and shot placement, shot placement is paramount ….more rounds in the mags gives you more chances at shot placement…….

 

[dbracin]

A handgun is just a tool. How many different screw drivers do you have? As long as you can hit what you shoot at and it functions 100%, carry what works for you. I find that certain attire requires me to carry smaller lighter and other attire allows for IWB of a full size. YMMV

 

[Donn]

Welcome to the Model 49 club. Rescued mine from the used gun case at my LGS some years back. Capacity? Starting to hear the same refrain about single stack autos. You're not going to walk into a John Wick scenario every time you leave the house, despite what the "operators" say on their You Tube channels. Take stock in where you go and what you do. In most cases, the old humpback will be enough.

 

[BB57]

Maybe it is just me, but I can shoot this Beretta a whole lot better than the S&W. It holds a lot more rounds, too.

In general reliability with .380 ACP pistols can be spotty, particularly with hollow points.

There are however two .380 pistols that I have found to be 100% reliable with hollow points and also have long enough barrels to ensure consistent expansion and penetration with selected loads.

The Beretta 80X is one and the 13 round magazine is a plus. The DA trigger is also superb, exceptionally smooth and comparatively light by most DA/SA pistol standards.

The Browning Black Label 1911 .380 is the other. Unlike some .380 ACP mini 1911s it has a delayed recoil operating system, that improves reliability and reduces felt recoil. It's also a very well designed and well made pistol intended for self defense use.