Have you ever had to draw your weapon for self defense?

[DWalt]

One time, over 50 years ago. What would be called today an attempted carjacking. Displaying my revolver was the only action necessary to discourage the attempt before it started.

 

[BB57]

Drew a service pistol twice in work related incidents. Never actually had to fire it either time.

Drew, or at least started to draw a self defense pistol as an armed citizen once. The knife wielding assailant realized he was about to be shot and fled before I could complete the draw. It happened extremely fast at contact distances where striking him in the chest and driving him back to keep him off balance and give me time to draw was the critical element. I think it was combination of both the rapid and very aggressive response along with the obvious beginning of a draw that put him to flight. It was definitely not what he expected.

 

[Echo40]

So far, in the past going on 10 years since I began carrying a pistol for self-defense, I have been fortunate enough to never have to draw my firearm in response to a human threat, although the whole reason why I started carrying in the first place was in response to a crazy, drug-abusing room mate who had threatened to decapitate me after an argument one night, which lead to him getting evicted. I threatened me a couple of times afterwards, but I let him know that I was armed, and that was enough to get him to take off and ultimately leave me alone.

I've only ever had to draw my pistol twice, both times were over this Summer in response to dogs who rushed at me while I was out walking, but fortunately I never had to shoot.

 

[413Maxwedge]

I am not a lawyer.
I was intrigued by your comment.
I cannot confirm it anywhere.
"Dangerous weapon" has a legal definition in every state.
Are you coming from a legal standpoint? It occurred to me that you may be referring to a kind of language etiquette, No?

I help my club with Hunter's Ed and Shooting Sports Merit Badge qualifications for the Boy Scouts. As NRA Instructors we are taught to always refer to the guns as "Firearms". If a kid calls it a weapon we are to correct them. "It's a firearm, for hunting or target practice. A WEAPON is for fighting people. That's not what we're doing here. It's a FIREARM".

 

[stansdds]

As I type this, I have yet to draw my carry revolver or pistol for defense. Decades ago, well before Virginia became a "shall issue" CCW permit state, I open carried and there was one time that the sight of my holstered revolver likely stopped a problem before it really got started.

 

[SouthNarc]

I thought a long time about brandishing it. Hoped just tapping on my chest like I had it on me would work. It did. When I first gestured I had it concealed carry, I didn’t. I had to go get it and then I was properly concealed carrying.

It was over a slimy useless drunk who hangs out at a place we do. We go there occasionally, and he’s there every time, which means that when he’s not at work, he’s either sleeping or sitting there drinking. Every time we walked in he would get up to go to the bathroom and squeeze my wife’s shoulder. She didn’t want me to make a scene, but after 3 or 4 times, I got tired of it and did. He was going to go after me but wisely elected not to.

Probably small potatoes compared to others, but slimy people disgust me.

The reason I put the word brandishing in quotation marks was because in some state code that's an actual form of assault. It's usually a misdemeanor. In other states that would be a "simple" assault or even an "assault by threat", but every state code pretty much has some language to describe the idea of something you do that involves trying to influence someone's behavior with a gun without actually drawing it or pointing at them.

So the "legality" of that kind of coercive action is all over the map.

Use of force law for regular people at the local level usually involves some kind of assessment of proportionality. It's done in the field by law enforcement and at the bench by juries and judges.

What you wrote that led up to you motioning that you had a firearm isn't super clear, but from what I read if that had gone physical in any way and a gun had been drawn, I think you might have had a problem legally depending on where you live.

I say that because it sounds like you had an option to leave a situation versus stay and that's one of the first things any lawful analysis is gonna factor in. You wrote:

Every time we walked in he would get up to go to the bathroom and squeeze my wife’s shoulder. She didn’t want me to make a scene, but after 3 or 4 times, I got tired of it and did.

I think if there was a body on the floor of a public setting that you had could have walked away from, the language I bolded is gonna' be problematic for you in the cold, harsh light of hindsight to someone who is sitting in a jury box.

That's my opinion based on teaching use of force with and without firearms for a living about 40 weeks a year in 48 states and 11 countries outside of the U.S.

I'm glad it turned out okay though and that guy got the message. No one likes scumbag drunks or having their wife groped.

 

[AJ]

Have drawn a weapon twice, outside a combat zone (no, I don't mean Boston). Once to defend my family and once to defend another persons life. Sight of the gun was enough to defuse the situations both times.

 

[Matt_X]

I am not a lawyer.
I was intrigued by your comment.
I cannot confirm it anywhere.
"Dangerous weapon" has a legal definition in every state.
Are you coming from a legal standpoint? It occurred to me that you may be referring to a kind of language etiquette, No?

We have had some difficulty with Mas Ayoob in this area. He has said similar things, like you must never wear a funny gun t-shirt. It will be used against you.

Thank you for bringing this up. Mas's point, which you clearly understand, is that these things can be used against you. But more than that because its about perception rather than legal definition. And its not just the perception of a jury, but the responding officers, and then the investigating team.

I help my club with Hunter's Ed and Shooting Sports Merit Badge qualifications for the Boy Scouts. As NRA Instructors we are taught to always refer to the guns as "Firearms". If a kid calls it a weapon we are to correct them. "It's a firearm, for hunting or target practice. A WEAPON is for fighting people. That's not what we're doing here. It's a FIREARM".

That's a good approach. Anything can become a weapon the in the right (or wrong) circumstances. The purpose of shooting sports is to develop knowledge, and skills, which are mental and physical, as well as mechanical. I think the best approach is to call a rifle a rifle, a shotgun a shotgun, and a revolver a revolver unless there is some reason to use a broader term.

Possibly a little controversial I know..
How many of you guys have had to pull your weapon for self defense?
Just curious. I don’t mean bears or dangerous wildlife.
I commented on a thread where someone was asking about getting a SW bodyguard as a better defense tool.
.....
That is what sells me on these things, and how I explain this new hobby to my friends who are not “gun guys”.

Your question has provoked an interesting discussion as well as answers. I'm curious if you were aware of, and possibly the reasons you narrowed the defensive uses?

1. Limiting it to something carried on person. (implied by 'draw').
2. Not including threatening animals or varmints.
3. Assuming just one tool might be 'best' for a variety of circumstances.

I appreciate you are a collector. I hope you have the opportunity to shoot some of your collection because I think you'll come to further appreciate the differences in designs and assembly etc. And therefore why one might have several revolvers even if they were not a collector.
Side note: When I write 'shoot' I mean at an appropriately sized target. An NRA B-8 target is a good one for 25 yards and closer. Although for under 10 yards a smaller bullseye (such as those used for the NRA Basic Pistol qualification) is arguably a better choice.

 

[SouthNarc]

I think the semantics of calling a gun concealed in public a "firearm" instead of a "weapon" is really a distinction without a difference.

If you have a Glock 19 in an IWB holster covered by a shirt and bend over and expose your gun in Wal-Mart and someone calls law enforcement, the responding officer is not going to believe you were carrying that gun for plinking.

It is most assuredly a weapon that one carries legally to defend themselves lawfully. Talking around that with word play only makes a person look like they're trying to obscure that fact.

 

[ladder13]

30 years ago when a 6 pointer was about 50ft away headed right straight for me. Dropped him with my 5 inch 629 Classic.

 

[WR Moore]

I am not a lawyer.

"Dangerous weapon" has a legal definition in every state.
Are you coming from a legal standpoint? It occurred to me that you may be referring to a kind of language etiquette, No?

Thanks for your contribution here WR!
BrianD

First, thanks for the kind words. Now then, I was certified as a multi discipline Law Enforcement Firearms instructor for many years. Upon retirement I transitioned some applicable quals to private citizen instructor qualifications. The first significant difference I noticed was the insistence that the word "weapon" not be used to describe a firearm. The term was freely used in LE/military instruction. The firearms issued to me for work were definitely not there for sporting purposes.

While there's no doubt some verbal judo at work here (don't hand the opposition a club), there's also an underlying legal principle. That is that anything picked up to be used as a weapon, is a weapon. Your 9 iron, base ball bat, framing hammer or axe/hatchet are just sporting goods/tools-right up until you decide to use it as a defensive device.

So, while the opposition labels anything that goes "bang" as a weapon, that's not entirely true. While your skeet gun, hunting rifle, target gun can be used as a weapon, that's not it's true purpose or the reason you bought it.

SouthNarc does make a good point about the usage being a distinction without a difference, but as a honcho frequently stated: Perception is reality. There's no point in handing the opposition a club to beat us with. I can recall an old instructor: "The mind is the weapon, what you use is a tool."

 

[jmcghee]

Long ago

There was a rental cross the street from me. Meth head occupied. One evning heard bunch of cussing and carrying on. Went out back door, snuck round front. Skank was chasing Common Law round front yard with a butcher knife. Stepped out of shadows and hollered "knock that **** off". Skank dirrected her attention to me, started to cross street. Held my 657 in the air with the flashlight on it. She turned round quiker than a border collie. Went back to chasing dipshit. Called 911. Never went back outsde to see the circus again. Just called 911

 

[413Maxwedge]

I have not had to draw on anyone, but have had a semi-auto drawn and "brandished" at me. That's when I finally purchased my first handgun (after 50 years of not wanting one).

I've been shooting shotgun for about 25 years. My first wife's parents owned 120 acres and took me turkey and dove hunting. Then I started shooting Trap. I always told myself that if I ever feel like I need a handgun.... then it's time to move!

I work for a utility company, and most of my work is in low-rent parts of the city. Opening and closing gates, alone, in the dark, with condoms and needles underfoot and junkies watching you. I started getting good with flicking a knife open but still didn't want a handgun.

I live in a nice town in a nice County. My son goes to a nice school and we belong to a nice church. We know our neighbors and have strong ties in our community. But a couple years ago there was a drug bust 5 houses up and the police chased people through the neighborhood. I was working late and the wife called me frantic saying there were cops walking through everyone's yard with flashlights. I was 1.5 hrs away and panicking! Came home, grabbed my home-defense shotgun and cleared my house and 2.5 acres.

Started thinking about getting a handgun.

July 2023 - I had finished cutting my grass and was using the leaf blower to clear grass off the drive, when a car pulled in. An older woman (+- 70) got out and said my riding mower had thrown a rock at her car and caused damage. I was very apologetic and told her I'd get it fixed. I told her to get an estimate, or buy the parts and bring me the receipt (if she had a family member that could fix it).

I told her we should exchange info - names and #'s, etc.. She got VERY pushy, insisting that she wouldn't tell me her name and I needed to give her $100. I stayed calm and nice and told her that I didn't have any cash, and it was going on 7pm on a Sunday. I also wouldn't pay her without knowing the actual price, and pointed out that I had turned off the mower about 10 minutes before she pulled in. (It was feeling like a scam).
She told me she was calling her son, and he would "make me" give her the money.

??? What is going on ????

I said "Ma'am, I'm going to write down my name and #, and you will write down yours, and I'll get your car fixed. That's all I can do right now". She got back in the car and yelled that her son was coming. I said "Ma'am. MA'AM. I'll fix your car but I need your info".
"NO - I'm not leaving until you give me money"

????????????????

"Okay, then you need to leave. We're done here. Get off my property"

She started the car and drove AT me about 4 feet. I jumped back, got hot, and started yelling at her. "Did you try to hit me??" GET THE **** OFF MY PROPERTY."

She backed out as I walked next to her yelling that I had Wanted to fix her car, but she ****-ed up and wasn't getting anything now. ALL of a sudden there's a man with a pistol in his hand coming into my driveway at me (the neighbor told us and the State Police that the man had been standing at my mailbox the whole time she was up the driveway talking to me. I have trees all along my road frontage and didn't see him.

I flicked out my knife (instant reaction) and just walked backwards saying "get off my property, get off my property. You're on private property, I'll defend myself"
*I'm a 51yo, 6'-2" 230lb construction worker but don't consider myself a "tough guy". This man looked like a tough guy. A short, red faced, 30-ish wanna-be tough guy. With a gun in his hand.

He walked me backwards about 1/4 way up my 220' driveway saying "give her the money" until my wife opened the front door and yelled that she called the police (she really did). He stopped and walked back to the lady saying that he knew where I lived and he was gonna **** me up.

That was it. I started watching gun reviews on YouTube and about a month later I had my PA LTC and a couple of J-frames. My wife and 13yo are comfortable shooting the 43c (J-Frame .22lr) and it lives in her home office. The M&P 340 is usually in my pocket or the glove box. My 686 is in the nightstand. I try to stop by the range once a week and fire a cylinder or two from my carry piece, and take the kid occassionally for some target practice.

Of all the threat I perceive working in the City, I never expected anything like that at home.

 

[Autonomous]

The definition of brandishing usually conveys the intent of intimidation.
I was taught pulling the firearm and holding it at low ready did not meet that threshold. I have no idea if this holds true in all states.

 

[SouthNarc]

First, thanks for the kind words. Now then, I was certified as a multi discipline Law Enforcement Firearms instructor for many years. Upon retirement I transitioned some applicable quals to private citizen instructor qualifications. The first significant difference I noticed was the insistence that the word "weapon" not be used to describe a firearm. The term was freely used in LE/military instruction. The firearms issued to me for work were definitely not there for sporting purposes.

While there's no doubt some verbal judo at work here (don't hand the opposition a club), there's also an underlying legal principle. That is that anything picked up to be used as a weapon, is a weapon. Your 9 iron, base ball bat, framing hammer or axe/hatchet are just sporting goods/tools-right up until you decide to use it as a defensive device.

So, while the opposition labels anything that goes "bang" as a weapon, that's not entirely true. While your skeet gun, hunting rifle, target gun can be used as a weapon, that's not it's true purpose or the reason you bought it.

SouthNarc does make a good point about the usage being a distinction without a difference, but as a honcho frequently stated: Perception is reality. There's no point in handing the opposition a club to beat us with. I can recall an old instructor: "The mind is the weapon, what you use is a tool."

Yeah man I agree and so many people give the opposition a TON of ammo in a courtroom. Some replies in this thread are evidence of that!

 

[SouthNarc]

The definition of brandishing usually conveys the intent of intimidation.
I was taught pulling the firearm and holding it at low ready did not meet that threshold. I have no idea if this holds true in all states.

There's A LOT of linguistic side-stepping in training that unfortunately is a by-product of intensive cross-examination or prosecution.

A common thread is the intent of your actions versus the results of your actions.

Here's an example that's directly related to what you were taught:

Typically people are taught that they shoot to stop a threat not to kill.

The best practices for stopping the threat have a high probability of killing someone.

So the dance in testimony has always been one's intention balanced with the actual likely or expected result of one's action. What you don't want to do if you're testifying is word-quibble or appear to be obfuscating. That's the kiss of death to a jury. I have seen this first hand with law enforcement shootings that go before a grand jury and caused credibility issues with the witness.

Just to be clear I'm not suggesting that what you were taught was "wrong". What I'd like you to do is think beyond your instruction and ask yourself if someone were facing you and drew to a low ready but didn't actually put their muzzle on your torso, would you find that action intimidating?

If the answer is yes then your testimony if proffering an affirmative defense would probably be better saying something like this:

"I drew my weapon to a low ready because I believed a lethal threat was imminent but not immediate. I understand my action could very well be intimidating but that's not why I drew my firearm". This kind of phrasing side steps a malicious prosecutor framing your intention on his terms.

 

[CajunBass]

Many years ago, when I was much younger, and even stupider, I was driving home one afternoon, when a car cut in front of me, and slammed on his brakes, (so did I to keep from hitting him) and rolled out of the drivers side cursing and screaming. I had no idea who this was or what he wanted.

I had no gun in those days, but I did had a nightstick, part of my security guard "stuff" beside the front seat. Instead of staying in the car, rolling up the windows, and locking the doors, I decided I'd show just how stupid I was and started to get out.

As I stood up, I grabbed the nightstick, smacked it against my left palm. Never said a word. The other fellow stopped, then said "Sorry Bro! Wrong car!" and got back in his car and drove off. My knees were shaking so bad I could bairly stand. All I could think was "HOLY...blank. He could have killed me!"

Closest I've ever come. And the only thing I knew about using a nightstick was how to put in the ring on my belt.

 

[WR Moore]

Since SouthNarc mentioned "side stepping", it was also made abundantly clear to us (in LE courses) that one has a "gun hand" and a "support hand". They didn't explain it but it doesn't take a genius to realize someone made an issue about why someone chose to shoot with their "less able" ("weak") hand and was therefore reckless and needlessly endangered bystanders.

OK, it's combat semantics, but one tries to avoid handing adversaries clubs to beat one with. And, it avoids long discussions on barricade shooting techniques and other distractions.

 

[M29since14]

I think the semantics of calling a gun concealed in public a "firearm" instead of a "weapon" is really a distinction without a difference.

If you have a Glock 19 in an IWB holster covered by a shirt and bend over and expose your gun in Wal-Mart and someone calls law enforcement, the responding officer is not going to believe you were carrying that gun for plinking.

It is most assuredly a weapon that one carries legally to defend themselves lawfully. Talking around that with word play only makes a person look like they're trying to obscure that fact.

And being a bit silly. Unfortunately the world seems to be full of silliness of all sorts these days. Of course we carry weapons. If it’s not a weapon, it’s just useless weight.

 

[Autonomous]

...proffering an affirmative defense would probably be better saying something like this:

"I drew my weapon to a low ready because I believed a lethal threat was imminent but not immediate. I understand my action could very well be intimidating but that's not why I drew my firearm".

That is gold. Thank you.